Mod: CBM 1.7 released

[Redeyes]

Originally Posted by Stavis_L

For reference, I believe the options for multi-unique summon spells are:

1) The various elemental royalty summons
2) The demon princes (ice, fire, heliophagi, demon lords)
3) The treelords
4) The Lords of Civilization/Grigori (Hinnom)
5) The Spentas (Caelum)
6) The Tlaloques (Mictlan)

There's also the Jinn, Percival the Pocket Knight, Carcator and Holger the Head, but those are all from items, are singular summons (like Illheart and Banefire), and all but the Jinn are combat summons. Some of the combat summons might be unique because they come from artifacts, I don't really know; do they accrue experience?

Blood slaves are used if they are close to the caster, aren't they? If the combat summons can be used to introduce extra blood slaves they could be interesting as a means to ensure a constant supply of blood slaves in combat.

[Calahan]

Originally Posted by llamabeast

It's possible to add new spells that summon a particular unique unit. It's not possible to add new spells that summon one of a set (e.g. a version of Tartarian Gate, or the Ashdod unique summons). If you want one of a set then you have to overwrite another set like Calahan says.

Many thanks for clearing that up llama. So it would be possible (spell limits allowing) to give each nation 8 (for example) seperate unique summon spells (that generate gems for the purpose of this debate). Interesting idea. I have no idea yet on the merits of this, but as an idea it's good to know it is an actual option.

--------------------

Originally Posted by Stavis_L

1) Yes, this would need to be done via map commands vs. mod commands, because
2) Yes, you are hard limited to 2 commanders at the start (i.e. the starting commander + the starting scout.)

(I realize the discussion progressed past this point, but in case anyone was interested.)

Thanks Stavis. I suspected nations were hard coded to 2 commanders

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by Calahan

Many thanks for clearing that up llama. So it would be possible (spell limits allowing) to give each nation 8 (for example) seperate unique summon spells (that generate gems for the purpose of this debate). Interesting idea. I have no idea yet on the merits of this, but as an idea it's good to know it is an actual option.

Yes, this is exactly what I had in mind: make the gem generating summons unique so you can limit them in a way you can't with item modding (where it's either unique or unlimited).

Btw, while you could certainly replicate the way everyone can get equal access to clams, I had in mind that this would be a game balance mechanism. So, for example, Bandar might have eight gem generating summons while Jotun only had one or two (or none). And aside from the number of summons their value could also be different. Want to give Bandar a mid-game boost? Give them a unit that only costs 5 gems to summon and generates 5S gems a turn (or N or W or whatever you think would be useful). Unlike with magic items, or for that matter non-unique summons, you don't have to worry that this discounted cost will be abused.

It's also worth mentioning that the value of these summons in the end game will vary depending on the size of the game. The larger the game, the smaller a percentage of your total gem income these gem generating summons will provide.

I wouldn't really say I'm pushing for this, just that if you like the idea of gem gems this would be an approach with a lot more options than item modding provides since you could limit the scale of it and apply it where needed.

[P3D]

FWIW, there's an alternative to the now unique dousing rod, even if a bit more expensive. Empower B1 for 30 slaves - instead of 6 or 10. It would take about 10 turns to pay for itself.

[Squirrelloid]

Regarding Ulm:
I think the 'boosts' Ulm got almost entirely miss the point.

Ok, the armor rebalancing is probably a good thing. Although Ulm's infantry still has a serious problem - their base stats are straight 10s. For a professional military, I'd expect *some* infantry soldiers with better than basic stats. EA Ulm has them, why doesn't MA Ulm? I'm not convinced the armor rebalancing does enough for Ulm's troops, since they were actively bad before, and now they might just not lose to tall grass, but i still have to couch that cautiously. Don't be fooled into thinking the armor changes make Ulm's infantry actually good.

Iron Angels should not be Ulm's focus, its troops should be. And with thugs nerfed pretty hard by the loss of hammers, i'm not convinced making them easier to acquire helps them all that much. But then, its been so long since i've actually seen one, I can't remember what they do.

Finally, FotA available at level 0 is laughable. On the one hand, there's little worth forging without construction research anyway. Otoh, casting FotA take a lot of E gems - gems they can't afford to spend very early anyway (or even if they do, then what gems are they going to forge with?). And since I expect Ulm will roll over and die pretty easily even with the armor buff, its just another reason to kill them early. (Not that a second capital is ever a bad reason to kill someone).

Regarding SDRs:
SDRs are a gem gen. They needed to go. The heims probably need to be looked at following their removal to help their chronic blood hunting problem, but no one else should be overly affected in an adverse manner. All the other real blood powers either have cheap(ish) B1 hunters, or B2+ hunters readily available.

Regarding Hammers:
I think this is a change that hasn't been thought through very carefully, and many nations need adjustments, potentially dramatic adjustments, to account for the change. Eriu went from bad to unplayable. TNN and the heims are also in pretty bad shape. The real winners? Nations like Mictlan who didn't really have a good way to get hammers before (because they took a non-E bless chassis and had no E national mages). Mictlan, of course, had no need of a buff, stealth or otherwise. (And no, loss of SDRs doesn't really harm Mictlan very much).

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

All the other real blood powers either have cheap(ish) B1 hunters, or B2+ hunters readily available.

Without SDR's a B1 blood hunter only has a (unconfirmed) 50% chance of successfully hunting slaves. Way to low chance.

With a SDR this raises to 90%. (Yeah, the percentages are influenced by the game settings).

Removal of the SDR just makes it very hard to blood hunt with B1 hunters. So these b1 mages are now useless.

[Executor]

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

Without SDR's a B1 blood hunter only has a (unconfirmed) 50% chance of successfully hunting slaves. Way to low chance.

With a SDR this raises to 90%. (Yeah, the percentages are influenced by the game settings).

Removal of the SDR just makes it very hard to blood hunt with B1 hunters. So these b1 mages are now useless.

Exactly what I stated a few days back, it will just make certain blood nations much more powerful eg. Jotun, Marg... while nations like Van get royally screwed.

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by Executor

Exactly what I stated a few days back, it will just make certain blood nations much more powerful eg. Jotun, Marg... while nations like Van get royally screwed.

The small jotun mages do get screwed, and a few of these with SDR's are way more economical than a Skratti.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

Without SDR's a B1 blood hunter only has a (unconfirmed) 50% chance of successfully hunting slaves. Way to low chance.

With a SDR this raises to 90%. (Yeah, the percentages are influenced by the game settings).

Removal of the SDR just makes it very hard to blood hunt with B1 hunters. So these b1 mages are now useless.

and so you hire more bloodhunters without SDRs... I'm sure Mictlan is going to cry about it with its 60g sacred B1 mages... Seriously, this is not a tragedy.

[Redeyes]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

Regarding SDRs:
SDRs are a gem gen. They needed to go. The heims probably need to be looked at following their removal to help their chronic blood hunting problem, but no one else should be overly affected in an adverse manner. All the other real blood powers either have cheap(ish) B1 hunters, or B2+ hunters readily available.

Well, if you want to give the Heims (or anyone else) more blood slaves, would it work to give their commanders a retinue of blood slaves (unit 326) to help them in combat?