AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

[Alneyan]

Originally posted by oleg:
(...) Especially HP option 1. (...)

These three words (or four) say all, it is an option. If you don't like it, fine, that's why it is an option in the first place. Nobody obliged you to pick this option I believe. And you may even take additional disavantages to compensate this option, like, say, Reduced Planet Capacities? (Without using the 2000 points given by this trait.)

[JLS]

Oleg,
I do not understand. If you play without option SO*, you will require the game to have the Star Liners that PvK and I designed for Proportions a few years ago.

With AIC Version 4.01 AI.

For example, without SO* and MP* your game will be near exact to AIC v3.02, however the Star Liners are bigger now. Again, I do not understand; the AI Players in AIC v4.01 WILL win and respond at the same ratios as v3.02.

Many like a StarLiner dependent game, I do.

= = = = = = = = =

Name := SO*
Description := With *HP* above, this is a Standard Starting Option: Resulting in a more robust game that requires LESS Micro Management and logistics. Your game will be less dependent on Star Liners with this option.

Only pick SO* if you do not want a whole lot of Star Liners and many like this option. This option alone the AI wins close or at the same Ratios and moreover the AI may respond quicker and with a little more aggression then then v3.02, if players fail to build a small combat fleet early.

Many also like this option, for few to no Star Liners in the game.

= = = = = = = =

Name := MP*
Description := Multiplayer - LAN, PBW and PBEM games must have above Option *HP*, and SO* above is optional. ->NOTE: Please ask HOST to confirm your MP Handicapping levels and all start settings.

Pick MP* only if you want a game with increased Research and Resource Mega Facilities also with some increased Components that are all GREAT in a Multiplayer game.
In addition this can be used in a solo game, if a speeder game is desired, this option is effective against the AI and you should out produce v3.02 defaults.
This option alone the AI is not as close to the same Ratios of wins as v3.02. However the AI responds very well and is well recieved by the Players for its LAN/PBEM and PBW potential

With all the above starting options combined the AI may have to be bumped up one bonus level to reflect v3.02.

With the AI at High bonus the AI will dominate and Crush most if not all. This should be researved for a few AI's in a Multiplayer game.
= = = = = = = =

The below options have always been available in AIC

Name := O1
Description := With *HP* above, this option presents an Advantage for Balance: That will result in a Better all around Human Players Home World and its Colonies.

Name := O2
Description := With *HP* above, this option presents an Excellent Advantage: For a higher Proportions of Resources (not recommended for Finite Games).

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

The options are not very confusing and are listed right on the top of the Traits menu. It is always better to have option then not to have at all.
As you pick more starting options and mp Handicap points even the non-Role Playing Cultures; it becomes much easier to beat the AI so bump up the AI Bonus or pick less starting options

Above all have fun

[ November 08, 2003, 21:27: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

NOTE: Players are not required to have the starting AIC v4.01: MP* or SO* options to play Multiplayer.
If they prefer a game that reflects v3.02 style, play your game with just the familiar (required Human Player top option, as always)

[ November 08, 2003, 20:24: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:
Sure, we can keep all new options but, please introduce them with a message like "for suckers only who have no balls to stand up to AI" Or something like that. Sorry, I just quite upset that most of AIC development was focused on spoiling the challenge

The descriptions speak for themselves and just with the SO* 'the no Starliners option' the game is still very tough, indeed
However I, like you; perfer to play without SO* and the rest of the options, when playing a solo game.

- - - -
Oleg, how do you feel about the new Cultures and Characteristic values?

Also the Star Liners; I believe all is happy that the medium and large Star Liners are now in play sooner, what are your thoughts?

= = = = = =
With the FQM add-on in the next Version, the AI as promised will be updated and fine-tuned to handle the most industrious Human Player astro-miner, so fear not Oleg; the AI will be even tougher then v3.02 in some areas and circumstances.

[ November 08, 2003, 21:45: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

Well. i do not object to options itself. just the description "standard option" Holy cow, are't we all suppose to use "standard options" by default ?

As to the new cultures and settings - I did't check them carefully - they sort of disrupt races _general files so I was reluctant to start new games in fear of inadequte race trait selections. Or are my fears unfounded ?

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:

Well. i do not object to options itself. just the description "standard option" Holy cow, are't we all suppose to use "standard options" by default ?

I do wish I had better literary skills, the SO* is listed as a Standard Option because there really is no real advantage over no Star Liners when it comes to the AI, and Players should not feel like the are being offered a free handicap bonus with SO* . Unlike O1, O2 and the MP Handicaps levels that yields a free bonus to the Human Players.
- - - -

As to the new cultures and settings - I did't check them carefully - they sort of disrupt races _general files so I was reluctant to start new games in fear of inadequte race trait selections. Or are my fears unfounded ?

This is a good question and PvK’s Culture adaptations do really enhance the AI Players individualities over v3.02 and that of se4. For example, the Science race is greater with science but really lacks Intel. A little (SMAC) embellishments here. Berserkers are great in combat but really do lack production and science. With v4.01 the AI is handling this very well and tweaks can still be made

I noticed the Human Players may struggle with the new Cultures this is why the Research levels have been increased about 25% and Culture tweaks can still be made. My fear still, may be the -10 Berserkers production level for Human Players. To be safe and for those that really do not want Role Playing Cultures I added the five Populace Cultures

Alneyan fixed AIC char settings to avert some possible cheats in addition he reduced maintenance among many other char tweaks. Overall many players believe this is well balanced
Any additional needed game production balancing; coming from that area of Facilities output themselves.
What do you think?

[ November 09, 2003, 00:05: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

Well, my basic gut feeling is that you should revert to balancing "stock" AIC - no HP options 1,2.. etc. In fact I think it is already very well balanced against non-bonused AIs. All extra HP options -except negative of course - I really like supply eaters! should be clearly marked as "OK, you are not good enough, here is some help I really think you pay too much attention to these gimmiges - please focus more on weapon ballance

[ November 09, 2003, 01:10: Message edited by: oleg ]

[oleg]

Originally posted by JLS:
...This is a good question and PvK’s Culture adaptations do really enhance the AI Players individualities over v3.02 and that of se4. For example, the Science race is greater with science but really lacks Intel. ...

Or no ! I simply worry if new setings will make AI_general.txt files to drop some characteristics because of going overboard of 2000 points, for example. I want to check it before starting any game against AI. I certainly do not want any "1500/2000" AIs

P.S. My own HP race is no longer valid due to the 4.01 overdraft on 120% science -Actually it is a good idea to smack eggheads , I'm 100% behind

[ November 09, 2003, 01:23: Message edited by: oleg ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by oleg:
IMO ! Now I can drop reproduction to 0 and still worry not about new colonies !
The stock SE is closer to the "reality"!

Oleg the same applies to se4 when the reproduction drops to zero and we bring in population transports or starliners to fill it with pop. What I like is that the AIC Debarkation Depot does the same thing but automatically for us. It is only one pop a turn and consider that population will increase every 10 turns in AIC it is not a big deal. I think this is great for us lazy people that dont want to push a lot of star liners around through out the whole game.

Not true I don’t see how having a few Human Player options will bring stock se4 even close with or with out the Star Liners, you don’t have the Cultural Centers that are truly CULTURAL like you do in AIC, you dont have the cultural racial Cities and a lot of the other cool things like the AIC Trade Centers, OutPosts, Tactical Fighters, Planet Lore facility for a few of many AIC examples.

Where else can you play Space Empires in FINITE and not have the AI crash and burn by sucking its resources dry, how se4 realistic is that. Now I can play Finite with out the Star Liners and the AI in v4.01 is just as tuff as ever

[ November 09, 2003, 12:43: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by oleg:
Well, my basic gut feeling is that you should revert to balancing "stock" AIC - no HP options 1,2.. etc. In fact I think it is already very well balanced against non-bonused AIs. All extra HP options -except negative of course - I really like supply eaters! should be clearly marked as "OK, you are not good enough, here is some help I really think you pay too much attention to these gimmiges - please focus more on weapon ballance

Oleg I have been playing LAN for a long time and we have always used the AIC mp Handicap System for my friends and that is why we still play against each other, not everybody can play every night like us

Now with the new MP* multiplay option our multiplayer games can be set to an increased "evolution" speed this is

There are only 4 starting options in AIC v4.01.

OS*: No starliners as a Standard pick. I really like this one.

MP*: This is awesome for its Multiplayer capabilities great for my LAN and PBEM games

O1: Gives a little more starting research, resources and larger cargo at the Colonies. This option is great for the new players to AIC.

O2: Increase all productions and now the Players can have that "dream team" fantasy race and it is also good for new players to AIC.

It is always better to have option then not to have at all.

This is also what I like about AIC

Weapon balance, we are always tweaking the weapons, a matter a fact Oleg you just posted if you change the Torpedoes and the EAG to (x#x } then you will be totally happy.

I think that is what JLS asked of us in his email when he sent us the v4.01 beta file "Please give v4.01b a test drive. Any and all the suggestions for new stuff in multiplay would be helpful. We also need to take a look at overall Racial balances with weapons and facilities blah blah"; You know what he asked of us Last week

[ November 10, 2003, 10:58: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]