[OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics. - Page 109

Loser · #**1081** April 23rd, 2003, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
And Yes I am a fan of Marshell,,, I thought my post gave that impression.

I did not think you weren't. I just feel that Marshall (got the spelling right this time) is underappreciated, and my rant switch twitched.

Quote:

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Is the current administration and those in charge of the Intel agency dishonest or incompetent? Or both? It is a question that should be asked in U.S.A. and here in the forum.

If their dishonest they should be removed. If their incompetent then they should be removed due to the fact they do not have the ability to oversee the organizations they run.

This is indeed an unsettling question, and unfortunately one that cannot swiftly be answered. Because the data needed to clearly answer this question is necessarily classified, we will have to wait for history to judge.

In the mean time, we can only speculate, and judge them based on their accomplishments. Do take care, though, to notice not only the highly publicized errors, but also the day-to-day successes of the U.S. intelligence community. This could not be easy if you are already strongly for, or against, the current administration.

geoschmo · #**1082** April 23rd, 2003, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
And Yes I am a fan of Marshell,

You are? Well, I have an extra Marshell rookie card I'll trade to you for '44 Patton and a Genghis Kahn Millenium All-Stars card. I am trying to complete a set.

Sorry about that, I just got a vision of a bunch of kids sitting around swapping "Famous General" picture trading cards.

Geo

jimbob · #**1083** April 23rd, 2003, 05:26 PM

Dogscoff said:

Quote:

For example, the tens of billions of dollars' worth of work for the rebuilding of Iraq, all contracted out to his corporate friends. And all of this arranged and planned even before he even came to power.

(bold added)
Sorry Dogscoff, you may have linked this (or in some way referenced the original source) before, but I'm a little lazy and don't want to hunt the forum for the info. Would you be able to direct me to the source of this please?

Thanks,
jimbob

PS: Geo and tesco; PM

[ April 23, 2003, 16:27: Message edited by: jimbob ]

Wardad · #**1084** April 23rd, 2003, 06:42 PM

Saddams Missles Hidden in Plain Sight!

http://www.insanepictures.com/pic.shtml?1053.jpg

Fyron · #**1085** April 23rd, 2003, 08:03 PM

DS:

Quote:

And all of this arranged and planned even before he even came to power.

That would be baseless propaganda.

Primitive:

Quote:

And I would love to se him get a chance to defend himself. A war crime tribunal in The Hague would be a suitable venue. There is a cosy cell available next to Slobodan�s.

Except that Bush hasn't committed any war crimes...

Tesco:

Quote:

If their dishonest they should be removed.

Guess we have to remove all politicians from every office on the planet. Part of being a politician is being able to lie well.

Quote:

If their incompetent then they should be removed due to the fact they do not have the ability to oversee the organizations they run.

Well of course. But, none of them are incompentent. They all do their jobs very well.

[ April 23, 2003, 19:06: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

tesco samoa · #**1086** April 23rd, 2003, 08:18 PM

http://www.janes.com/security/intern...0423_1_n.shtml

interesting read.... on the current situation in Afghanistan.

Alpha Kodiak · #**1087** April 23rd, 2003, 09:15 PM

[quote]Originally posted by primitive:

quote:
Originally posted by Alpha Kodiak:

Quote:

Many in this forum have stooped to calling him names, like kids in grade school. I do not understand that. This forum has always struck me as much more mature than that. I can understand disagreeing with his policies, especially about this war. But to pile childish insults on a man who is not even here to defend himself is hardly productive.

When I have called GWB a moron, it was a reference to his foreign policy which is moronic. I have no idea if he truly is a moron or if he just gets bad advice.

And I would love to se him get a chance to defend himself. A war crime tribunal in The Hague would be a suitable venue. There is a cosy cell available next to Slobodan’s.

While I disagree with your assessment of his foreign policy, far more immature and meaningless names have been used in this thread than "moron". You are entitled to your views, as am I. I was refering to other expressions. I don't think you have much of a leg to stand on as far as "war crimes" go, though.

Alpha Kodiak · #**1088** April 23rd, 2003, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
With reguards to the the issue of WMD.

Is the current administration and those in charge of the Intel agency dishonest or incompetent? Or both? It is a question that should be asked in U.S.A. and here in the forum.

If their dishonest they should be removed. If their incompetent then they should be removed due to the fact they do not have the ability to oversee the organizations they run.

Many allegations have been made, but there has not been enough time for the truth to be known. Remember how the military offensive was "bogged down" and we had no chance to win without heavy losses. Now the complaints are that we haven't found WMD yet (though there have been many suspicious finds), so there must not be any. Let us see what time reveals.

rextorres · #**1089** April 23rd, 2003, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
[QB]DS:

quote:
And all of this arranged and planned even before he even came to power.

That would be baseless propaganda.

[QB]

Actually Wolfowitz and Perle - who work for Rumsfeld - were huge proponents of attacking Iraq even before 9/11 they co-wrote a paper which was written before 9/11 about that subject - NOT because of terrorism or WMD btw - but because it would be a relatively easy way to project U.S. power into the region. 9/11 was a convenient excuse.

The real "propaganda" was how they duped U.S. public opinion to get behind the war.

Loser · #**1090** April 23rd, 2003, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rextorres:
Actually Wolfowitz ... attacking Iraq ... to project U.S. power into the region.

I will affirm that this is true. It is said to be true, though I have not read the paper myself, it has been reported.

I just don't see a problem with it.

Hawkish? Yes.

Irresponsible? It is hard to tell without all the cards down.

Wrong? We'll see.

When it comes down to it, the U.S. hawks must be given a chance once in a while, if only to remind the only remaining Superpower of its limitations. This is necessary. Just think, if the U.S. didn't have Afghanistan and Iraq on which to try its might, it just might seek an alternative solution to its problems with the steel subsidies in the Czech Republic, or belligerence in China, or France, just France.

It will balance, in the end. It would be nice if it didn't have to work this way, but it does. Maybe later, when humanity grows up a bit more... blah, blah, blah (you know where that goes).

Anyway, manipulation of the media and public opinion is not bad, it's just the way things get done. Plenty of things get washed over for those in power: Kennedy things, Clinton things, Reagan things, Bush things, more Kennedy things, you get the picture. You want honesty, listen to the Billy Joel song. You want accountability, well, we might be able to help you there, but you might not like what universal accountability does to _your_ heroes.