MP: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI. Game Over. Team ACGHHS wins!

[Gregstrom]

From a team perspective, Machaka adds much more to the team strength than one of Eriu/Man. And they give much better Earth access than even BL (as they're not paying 25 gems for their E3, and they get to cast and forge E/F/D/N mixes). Yeah, lose Man instead. They don't do much that Eriu doesn't.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Gregstrom

Yup, otherwise they'd be in real trouble. Why drop Machaka to the AI, btw? It's not as if they're a powerhouse.

Actually, spreading dominion normally *contributes* to why mictlan is much less strong.

Usually mictlan sacrifices scales for a double blessing. Spreading dominion normally means these poor scales are propagated throughout mictlans territories, rather than through just a few.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Just a comment here.
Think teams, think allies for the full game, not player-vs-player. Rethink the "everyone knows" facts that are much based on one nation trying to beat all other nations in duels on small maps. Maybe reread Kristoffers description of the nation. Here is a chance to use some of the built-in features of a nation which have been ignored while allowing an ally to bolster the lacks.

Gandalf, i'm sorry, you just don't know what you're talking about here.

Vanilla Ashdod alone >> the entire arborean team. Seriously.

Seriously. Its not about duels, its what the nation can get for gold, and what the nation can do with magic. And CBM hasn't even nerfed Ashdod enough yet!

The 'built-in feature' of Man is that it has no late game. The 'built-in feature' of Eriu is it sucks - its troop line up is worthless in addition to having no late game, and being good at raiding does not win games. Seriously. Machaka at least has half a chance if it spams fever fetishes like mad...

(The only reason Man is worse than Eriu here is that Eriu at least adds something - raiding, and both would have to rely on their partners for anything resembling a late game. Something Mictlan can't really provide in MA, and Machaka has to live that long...)

[Gandalf Parker]

Well its not me talking. More of the devs. But Im sure you have your sources also.

MA Man is one of the few nations with temples for 200 gold in a game called Dominions.

The stealth ability of Eiru can be very useful in forcing enemies to spend gold differently than they had planned.

You might have a point that Mictlan and Machaka cant provide the strong frontline it would require to make good use of those. A Vet captain would have to decide that. I really havent played either one much.

[Trumanator]

The devs have clearly stated that balance was not a priority, and its not like someone needs "sources" to talk about the balance of a game they play.

MA man also doesn't benefit hardly at all from having 200g temples, since it can't blood sac and doesn't have recruit anywhere sacreds in vanilla.

Raiding doesn't win games. Sure you can take all his nonfort provs, but that won't stop him marching his army to your forts and reducing them one by one. Not to mention that if he has astral your thugs are going to die horrible solitary deaths one by one.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Septimius Severus

Arboreans (nature/earth): Man, Eriu, Mictlan, Machaka.
Sanguinarium (blood): Pangaea, Jotunheim, Abysia, Vanheim.
Supplicants of Set (death): Ermor, Shinuyama, C'tis, Ashdod.
Usurpers (astral): Pythium, Bandar Log, R'lyeh, Arco.

More or less I would rate this 16 nations:

1. Ashdod
2. Ermor
3. Pythium
4. R'lyeh
5. Jotunheim
6. Shinuyama
7. Vanheim
8. Arco
9. Ctis
10. Bandar Log
11. Pangaea
12. Mictlan
13. Abysia
14. Machaka
15 Eriu
16. Man

So set averages a 4.5
Astral, 6.25
Sanguinarium a 9
and aborium a whopping 14.25.

You would do better to add cold nations into the sanguinarium to boost their strengths.

[Gandalf Parker]

Its not balance to use it for its designed purpose. And it doesnt have to win games in team play. At least you arent discounting its use completely. But I would have to admit that Sanguinarium make my argument much better than the Arboreans.

[Trumanator]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Its not balance to use it for its designed purpose. And it doesnt have to win games in team play. At least you arent discounting its use completely. But I would have to admit that Sanguinarium make my argument much better than the Arboreans.

A few more proper nouns would help in making sense of this. What do you mean by all these "it"s? What argument does sanguinariam prove?

[Gandalf Parker]

I know some are newer players and havent played a variety of games. But Im hoping that someone is looking at a team whole made up of the parts rather than separately. If you were to assign team positions for some other sport, how would you assign them?

[Trumanator]

You blabber on about how we need to look for team synergies, but the entire point that squirrelloid and ChrisP made is that there IS no team synergy, particularly with the Arboriums. Grouping by paths is if anything worse for creating team synergies.