MP: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI. Game Over. Team ACGHHS wins!

[DrPraetorious]

Is there a thread for us to sign up for the new game?

Ulm cannot be on the same team as either Jotunheim or (especially) Ashdod! Even if the rest of the team is made up of the weakest nations.

I agree those teams are strong thematically but still not well balanced. I'll follow up on this later.

[chrispedersen]

Nations are looking better.. but I'd REALLY like to suggest we just leave ashdod to the AI.

Plus the last team will be weak if you don't have Rlyeh (and preferably with water.)

[Squirrelloid]

I dunno, MA Ulm is really weak. Giving them Ashdod may be the only way to make them playable. =) Especially since they're also saddled with Agartha. Those are two nations (Ulm, Agartha) i wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

The astral team looks fine to me. Pythium is a powerhouse, BL has a great late game and can be protected earlier, arco is average, and that may be the worst Mictlan, but its still powerful.

[Trumanator]

MA Ulm + thug nations= insanity

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Trumanator

MA Ulm + thug nations= insanity

Right, but even with cheap forgings, can Ashdod make up for Ulm's lack of contribution otherwise AND agartha's total failure to do anything?

[DrPraetorious]

I understand the thinking, but it is flawed.

MA Ulm is not actually that bad - it takes a while to get going, but magma eruption is *an* answer to *everything*.

Likewise MA Agartha - once you can actually summon the marble oracles, giving them Ulm-forged cheap equipment makes them formidable indeed.

The point is, team games tend to blunt the disadvantages of weak nations, because weak nations are mostly weak *early on*.

There are some reasonably strong nations (Machaka and Marignon, for example) which are weak in team games because they just don't contribute that much.

[Septimius Severus]

I actually agree with Squirrel on this. Ashdod is also appropriately themed for Haleheim with access to both fire and earth and a unit with a forging bonus.

If I am to take the advice of DrP and Chris regarding Ashdod, the problem is only so many nations available in MA and yet keeping the themes intact for four human teams:

Usurpers dominating Astral, Supplicants dominating Death, Haleheim dominating Earth and to a lesser extent fire, and the Sanguinarium dominating Blood and to a lesser extent Astral.

Consigning Ashdod to the AI, what do we put in its place? Since Arco is an astral power with native astral gem income, I am loathe to put them on any other team aside from the AI or the Usurpers, but they could be put on Haleheim I suppose, since they are versatile enough. Then R'lyeh must come in for the Usurpers, which is doable even on my all land map (with certain caveats). Am I missing any nations?

[Septimius Severus]

Originally Posted by DrPraetorious

Is there a thread for us to sign up for the new game?

Ulm cannot be on the same team as either Jotunheim or (especially) Ashdod! Even if the rest of the team is made up of the weakest nations.

I agree those teams are strong thematically but still not well balanced. I'll follow up on this later.

Haven't started signup's yet. I need to crystalize these teams and nations first.

I think there were some concerns about the Haleheim/Arborean team being competitive late game vs. Tartarians and vs. the Astral teams globals/wish and so forth, not to mention very early on. Giving them Ashdod may do this mightily.

I am diverging from normal team game format where every team has all the bases covered (or tries to anyway), in favor of strong themes. A certain amount of redundancy is of course part of the theme format, don't know that theme based games are intended to be balanced or anything. Having nothing but Markatas or Blood in a game is obviously aiming for something different. They are for fun and role playing I'd think.

Since the series is single age (moving from EA to LA to take advantage of an increasinly difficult AI) it has been a challenge for me to discover and fit 4 distinct themes (that have real differences in capabilities) into a single age without using the multi-age mod. I think I've succeeded as best can be done with that matchup. But if DrP or Chris or someone can come up with a better matchup, with strong themes, and giving each team a dominance in one aspect or area, that makes it unique, lets have it.

[Septimius Severus]

I agree with Chris on bringing in R'lyeh for the Usurpers. They are actually the flagship as it were of the team (thematically) and have stronger astral than Arco. Arco may be best left to the AI team, which will include TC, Man, and Eriu. The foundations for an Arboreal theme or even a water based theme as all four have access to these paths.

Perhaps the fears with regard to Ashdod and Ulm, can be reduced by mandating Ashdod be played by a noob (which I believe is the custom with giant nations anyway). And by default 2 positions on each team are rear/flanking positions intended for noobs. Since they can't CT, this might reduce fears of them steamrolling early on or being in the thick of the action with lots of equipment.

[Stagger Lee]

Originally Posted by Septimius Severus

Perhaps the fears with regard to Ashdod and Ulm, can be reduced by mandating Ashdod be played by a noob (which I believe is the custom with giant nations anyway). And by default 2 positions on each team are rear/flanking positions intended for noobs. Since they can't CT, this might reduce fears of them steamrolling early on or being in the thick of the action with lots of equipment.

Is that noob or newb. There is apparently a tremendous difference.