MP Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI. Game Over. Team ACGHHS wins! - Page 15

Septimius Severus · #**141** September 24th, 2009, 02:12 AM

There does seem to be little agreement on this.

Holpo and Chris, I understand your concern with my method. But the likelyhood that all four teams would rank the same 3 nations highest is slim. The odds of it happening are 1 in 204 (17 available nations * 3 slots * 4 teams). Even if teams are pursuing similar strategies, it is still not likely. And Psi is likely to grab Hinnom for his team, so that will take care of what I expect will be at the top of everyone's list.

Further, there are multiple researcher type nations, multiple stealth/raider nations, etc. Just be sure your ranked list has more than one of these fairly close to the top and you're likely to get most of what your looking for. Swaps for unassigned nations can be used to smooth out any issues.

But, I've already recieved a ranked list of 13 nations from the devas (12+1 to account for Psi's pick). Since we need these ranked lists from the other teams anyway, I suggest everyone do likewise and get those lists to me ASAP.

Then I'll resolve using both my method, and one similar to what we used in NvV, which was ABCDDCBA (just like what chris suggested) except with a random number generator (as DrP suggested) available on the web, for deciding which team is going to be A,B,C, or D.

I'll post the results and you guys decide which option you want to go with.

Sound fair enough?

chrispedersen · #**142** September 24th, 2009, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Septimius Severus

There does seem to be little agreement on this.

Holpo and Chris, I understand your concern with my method. But the likelyhood that all four teams would rank the same 3 nations highest is slim. The odds of it happening are 1 in 204 (17 available nations * 3 slots * 4 teams). Even if teams are pursuing similar strategies, it is still not likely. And Psi is likely to grab Hinnom for his team, so that will take care of what I expect will be at the top of everyone's list.

The odds you quoted are for random distribution - and have nothing to do with the problem at hand. No vet will pic yomi, agartha, hellheim, oceania, ea rlyeh as the strongest nation, for example.

The only difference between your second suggestion (random number generator) and mine - was that I'm letting team captains pick whether they want to be a,b,c or d rather than a random number generator.

Septimius Severus · #**143** September 24th, 2009, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Septimius Severus

There does seem to be little agreement on this.

Holpo and Chris, I understand your concern with my method. But the likelyhood that all four teams would rank the same 3 nations highest is slim. The odds of it happening are 1 in 204 (17 available nations * 3 slots * 4 teams). Even if teams are pursuing similar strategies, it is still not likely. And Psi is likely to grab Hinnom for his team, so that will take care of what I expect will be at the top of everyone's list.

The odds you quoted are for random distribution - and have nothing to do with the problem at hand. No vet will pic yomi, agartha, hellheim, oceania, ea rlyeh as the strongest nation, for example.

The only difference between your second suggestion (random number generator) and mine - was that I'm letting team captains pick whether they want to be a,b,c or d rather than a random number generator.

1. 17 nations doesn't include water nations, I don't know what a vet will pick for their top 3, but they could conceivably pick any of the 17 available.

2. Correct, but your method of picking which team wants to be A,B,C,D was rather confusing too me. You wanted vets to submit a list of 4 choices: like bcad, or abcd, or cabd, and I'd then need to resolve this as well to decide who gets to be team A (and gets the first pick) and so forth. It seems far too likely that teams would choose adbc or adcb in order of preference in order to get A or D since A grants an effective first choice, and D grants two picks in a row. Really no need for this extra layer of complexity my friend.

GrudgeBringer · #**144** September 24th, 2009, 08:56 AM

Actually, that works real well (ABCD-DCBA). I am in 4 of those every year and I have found the best spot to be #2 (#4 in a 12 team draft). You still get a good nation on your first pick and another pretty good nation on the way back, with the almost identical level on your third pick.

1rst pick gets the 1-8-9-16-17 picks.

4th gets the 4-5-12-13-20 picks

So it really doesn't favor anyone in a team.

My opinion only

Septimius Severus · #**145** September 24th, 2009, 01:28 PM

Ok, I've received a ranked list of nations from chris' team.
I am awaiting a similar list of 12 or 13 nations from Executor and Psi's team.

While I enjoy these debates:

Bottom line people, as DrP pointed out in his PM, regardless of what method we choose, there is no way that I can see to guarantee that teams will get everything they want in their top choices regardless of who picks first or picks last.

Your best bet if you want to make sure your team gets a good mix of for example a researching nation, a military power, a stealth nation (if that is what your strategy entails) is to ensure that your ranked lists have more than one of these type of nations near the top of your list.

The nature of team games is compromise and cooperation, we can't make everyone on every team completely happy. The goal of this game is not winning, and is not intended for victory oriented players, hence why many vets are not attracted. It's nice but not the be all and end all.

The goal is rather the education of the noobs which comprise 50% of the players. The AI element, aside from it's thematic purpose, is intended not to provide any real challenge to the vets or intermediates but to allow the noobs to gain more experience versus the AI. As a bonus, the human team that takes an early lead versus the AI, will have an advantage going into the MP portion of the game.

Let's not get sidetracked, and not forget about having fun here.

Regarding the map: I hope you all have checked the map (you've had ample time to express any concerns) and don't have any issues with my placement. It is a small map and a cramped situation (NvV I deja vu). A very few starts are in provinces with terrain masks that include forest, swamp, and waste. However, I don't think this will be a significant economic detriment to anyone since the surrounding terrain types count more. If you have any issues with the proposed starts, speak your mind now.

Failing that, lets get it on, get going and see how this first game plays out.

Thanks.
Your humble and overworked admin.

chrispedersen · #**146** September 24th, 2009, 07:07 PM

I am without power for 24 hours, and possibly longer.

shard · #**147** September 24th, 2009, 10:10 PM

I've registered but I still haven't received a confirmation...?

chrispedersen · #**148** September 24th, 2009, 11:49 PM

Back, with power.

Hoplosternum · #**149** September 25th, 2009, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shard

I've registered but I still haven't received a confirmation...?

Same here

Septimius Severus · #**150** September 25th, 2009, 03:13 AM

Hoplo, and Shard, both of your accounts are activated on the forums. In fact we've got 15 players from all 4 teams registered and activated. I assumed notification e-mails would be sent by default, but that may be something I have to configure. All in all I like the look, feel, and functionality of this new forum. What do the rest of you think?