Ermor MP Battlefield Game - FFA /CLOSED/

[Stormbinder]

Greetings.

I would like to share and discuss what is happening in our tournament game, because I have some questions that I don't know the answers for. It is about Soul Gate Ermor, controlled by (surprise! ) Norfleet.

Now before you all take deep breath and think: "Oh , here we go again, Stormbinder flaming Norfleet, new seria in this "soap" opera..." I would like to state this: I am going to keep this threat polite and neutral, at least from my side. I don't want to start any new flame wars or reignite the old ones.


What I would like to hear are the answers to several specific questions regarding Ermor nation in that game, which is controlled by Norfleet. These are not questions that originate only from me, because each of the other 4 players who are in this game, and who have been cooperating against Ermor all along, would like to know the answers to them as well.


First, some background info about our game: We have been playing on Karan map, 6 players total, standard MP settings. I was playing Vanheim, and as I said Ermor was played by Norfleet. As of Last turn, the game is pretty much over, the Ermor won. We are playing this game with Graphs ON, and from the stats it is clear that the only nation that was even coming close to the Ermor was Vanheim, other nations are very far behind on most graphs. So I have been fighting Ermor for the Last 7 turns or so, until in the Last turn’s battle my forces were completely annihilated while storming the Ermor Castle. I lost my All Father pretender, prophet, SC and entire army to Ermor's 5 SCs (3 Wraith Conculs and 2 Banelords) supported by 3 Dusk elders with Lifedraing Banners each. Of course all Ermor's SCs were fully decked with regular SC's gear.

Now here is the question that is buging us all, since all living nations have been very actively cooperating against Ermor for the Last 10 turns, and we all have scouts all over the place and share info with each other:

In just this single battle, the Ermor have used 470 gems worth of equipment and summons Now, according to the graphs, my current gem income until tha Last turn was about 50+% of Ermor's. As those of us familiar with mathematics may remember from college years , the total gem income for each nation in the game is equal to the area under the Gems Income Graphs. ( in other words it is integral of the graph function).

The graphs in our game are very clear. If we take the total amount of gems collected by our two nations than it is very clear that I have collected about 60% of total Ermor's gems for the duration of the game (I am only talking about regular gem income from the sites, since nothing else is reflected in the gem graphs). Add to this the fact that Arco, Pythium and Jotunheim have been sending *all* their gems to me, since I was spearheading and coordinating our anti-Ermor efforts, than I had in my possession about 70% of the gems that Ermor had.

Now keep in mind, it is just turn 22, standard MP magic 50 frequency. But the thing is, my nation could not afford half of the 470 gems used By Ermor for summons and equipments that they used in just this single battle.

That's almost 500 gems. The number may be lowered slightly if ermor used dwarven hammers to forge some of the equipment for his commanders, but not by too much. What more, based upon Ermor research (which is sky high), and based upon other graphs info, and based upon reports from other allies as well as my own scouts, I can make a good guess that Ermor probably has at least 1500 gems worth of other summons and equipment in his empire. Remember, this is just turn 22, and he didn't search for sites at all up until 7 turns ago. And even now his "official" gem income is pretty low.


Also keep in mind Ermor in this game must have alchemized like crazy a lot of his gems, since he have madcastled most of his provinces (at least 20 castles), build temples and probably labs everywhere. While his money income is totally abysmal, of course.

So I would like to ask Norfleet this - how such amount of gems is it possible by turn 22???


Now before you all guys think of the possible explanations, let me state this:

Some of these additional gems could have come from random events (Ermor is playing Luck 2 turmoil 3, so he would quite a few events). Some of these gems could have come from Raven Feasts, which Ermor could used on some of his high population provinces while he was actively murdering the population. And finally some could come from Clams, since we all know that Norfleet loves to clam hoard. However clamhoarding is not easy to do for the Soul Gate Ermor, since they don't have any water or even astral income, and lack any water 2 mages. It is still possible to do of course, but by turn 22 he could have too many clams, and they could not generate him that many gems. (which he would have to convert anyway)

So where would these 500 gems worth of equipment in just one battle (in which he didn't even used his nearby GK pretender), as well as about 1500 gems worth of Dusk Elders and other summons + additional equipment + gems to achemize to the gold would possibly come from? The Raven Feasts and gems from random events can only get you that far, after all. I would like to hear explanation from Norfleet about it.


Agian, this is NOT a flame tread, so please everybody stay polite and respectful to each other. If there is a valid explanation for all this, I would like to hear Norfleet telling it. Other 4 players in our game also would like to hear it very much, since everybody is as much puzzled as I am.



Regards,
Stormbinder

[Sindai]

supported by 3 Dusk elders with Lifedraing Banners each.

Now why bother doing this? Elders can cast LD natively with just a skull staff, which is half the gems. Obviously there's some reason, or Norfleet wouldn't do it, but it's not immediately obvious to me...

[Graeme Dice]

Now why bother doing this? Elders can cast LD natively with just a skull staff, which is half the gems.

It costs only 5 fatigue, instead of 10, so the DE will get 5 more back every time it casts. It will also probably be much more likely to use the banner.

[Stormbinder]

Now why bother doing this? Elders can cast LD natively with just a skull staff, which is half the gems. Obviously there's some reason, or Norfleet wouldn't do it, but it's not immediately obvious to me...

Or because he got to con 6 before he reseached Drain Life.

[Zapmeister]

Now before you all guys think of the possible explanations

Fascinating. I too want to steer clear of anything accusative, but this has got me thinking to what would or would not be possible if anyone should discover how to hack the .2h file.

Most game state information is going to be on the server, but the one thing that the server needs from the client is unit orders.

Suppose I was able to alter my .2h file so that my indy commander (say) had the order "Forge Ring of Wizardry". It would be hard or impossible for the server to calculate whether I had actually spent gems in the process, and it probably doesn't check to see if the commander had astral level 5 either, as it trusts the Dominions client to check that sort of thing. Comments?

You would need the fatherland file to do this type of thing. Unless Norfleet has access to the Fatherland file then it is a hard thing for him to generate cheat hacks with just the 2h file.

This thread is a hair from being closed, for any interested parties, you can discuss it at/around your own watering holes for anything personal or inflammatory. Or, for even more drastic measures of accusatory cheating, try sending the fatherland file and 2h files from the server (I assume Mosenhansen) to IW for a looksy. Their Email is info@illwinter.com

[Zapmeister]

You would need the fatherland file to do this type of thing.

Are you sure? That was my point, really, that only the state of the game between turns can be stored in the ftherlnd file. Unit orders appear only in the .2h file, and it's hard to tell from the game state whether they were issued legally.

From my tweaking with 2h files, I have found they go corrupted or are overwritten by the fatherland file on turn generation. Though *concievably* (as in, a meteor is going to crash into the earth ... tommorow concievably) you might be able to change it and make it not be overlapped by the fatherland file turn generation or force it to generate a certain type or thing. But I don't know for sure and anything is possible.

[Norfleet]

What I would like to hear are the answers to several specific questions regarding Ermor nation in that game, which is controlled by Norfleet. These are not questions that originate only from me, because each of the other 4 players who are in this game, and who have been cooperating against Ermor all along, would like to know the answers to them as well.

In just this single battle, the Ermor have used 470 gems worth of equipment and summons

You exaggerate: Let me run the breakdown for you.

3 Wraith Consuls: 35D apiece x 3 = 105D
2 Bane Lords: 10D apiece x 2 = 20D
5 Wraith Swords: 7D apiece x 5 = 35D
3 Dusk Elders: 20D apiece x 3 = 60D
3 Banners: 15D apiece x 3 = 45D

Total: 320 D

4 Starshines(one Banelord is hatless due to lack of funding): 7S * 4 = 28S
5 AMA and 5 Pendants: 6S * 5 = 30S OR 10S * 5 = 50S
(real cost somewhere in between - item is cheap, astral abundant, lack of hammers, not always hammerforged)

Total: 58 to 78 S

Jade Armor: (3E + 3W) * 5 = 15E + 15W OR (5E + 5W) * 5 = 25E + 25W
Wing Shoes: 3A * 5 OR 5A * 5 = 15 to 25 A

Total: 15-25E, 15-25W, 15-25A

Total: 423-473 Gems

As you can see, it hits 470 gems only by the pessimistic outcome. Death gems represent the bulk of the expense, and that's the real issue to focus on, as the other gems represent chump change, and the second largest expenditure, unsurprisingly, is astral. Gee, where do you think THAT comes from?

Now, according to the graphs, my current gem income until tha Last turn was about 50+% of Ermor's. As those of us familiar with mathematics may remember from college years , the total gem income for each nation in the game is equal to the area under the Gems Income Graphs. ( in other words it is integral of the graph function).

You are ignoring the following:

1. Explicit gem income represents the minority of my gem income: I tend to dislike reliance on explicit income due to the fact that it reveals one's hand in a scoregraphed game. Therefore, I deliberately conceal income through the use of the tactic you so despise, clamming, and fetishing.

2. Luck bonus: Ermor is Turmoil and Luck. I am hit with 2-3 randoms a turn, every turn, the entire game. Having half of your (zero) population die in a "get free death gems" event is pretty cool. Finding fistloads of gems is sweet, especially when they start the clamforge. $1500 free = 3 free castles.

3. Geography: I started in the east-central flatlands of Karan. Many plains. Good population, at least a dozen 10K+ provinces to burninate.

4. Raven Feast: My second research target pursued alongside construction was Conjuration. An average feasting yields 40D, and I'm creating both corpses to feast, and revenue, through burninating the countryside.

5. Natural income: My average income has fluctuated between $200-350 a turn. This represents a castle or temple every turn or two, as I do not pay noticeable upkeep nor recruit.

6. Alchemy: Surprisingly, luck has been with me this game. I have not had to alchemize many gems.

The graphs in our game are very clear. If we take the total amount of gems collected by our two nations than it is very clear that I have collected about 60% of total Ermor's gems for the duration of the game (I am only talking about regular gem income from the sites, since nothing else is reflected in the gem graphs). Add to this the fact that Arco, Pythium and Jotunheim have been sending *all* their gems to me, since I was spearheading and coordinating our anti-Ermor efforts, than I had in my possession about 70% of the gems that Ermor had.

If they sent you everything, they are very clueless. Furthermore, being newbies, they are not really familiar with gem generators, and they have not searched much. The contributions they send you are negligible. Their military efforts have been similarly humorous, as they've lost entire armies to construction teams and fly-by shootings. I have mostly ignored them.

Now keep in mind, it is just turn 22, standard MP magic 50 frequency. But the thing is, my nation could not afford half of the 470 gems used By Ermor for summons and equipments that they used in just this single battle

This single battle. Not just any ordinary battle, but the Big One. I committed everything I had on the tap at the time. That was the entire elite guard.

Some of these additional gems could have come from random events (Ermor is playing Luck 2 turmoil 3, so he would quite a few events). Some of these gems could have come from Raven Feasts, which Ermor could used on some of his high population provinces while he was actively murdering the population. And finally some could come from Clams, since we all know that Norfleet loves to clam hoard. However clamhoarding is not easy to do for the Soul Gate Ermor, since they don't have any water or even astral income, and lack any water 2 mages.

You're forgetting that I wrote the BOOK on Ermorian Clam Hoarding. Alas, it was rejected by the publisher, so it's not available for public consumption. But who was it who brought the clam-hoarding matter to prominence on the chat? What was I playing at the time? That's what I thought.

That was several months ago. The undead never rest. Do you think I haven't refined my crude newbie methods of yore in the course of SEVERAL MONTHS? This inquisition is absurd. Can't you just accept your loss?

[Zapmeister]

As you can see, it hits 470 gems only by the pessimistic outcome.

You should probably add in the cost of the hammers (plural since I don't think one hammer would have supported that many discounted items).