"MoD+Retreat" defeated w/o killing caster

[K]

I think that there is a misconception that casting Mists of Deception and then Retreating is an unbeatable tactic unless you can kill the caster in the two turns he has to cast and then Retreat.

Not true. If you can kill all the Phantasmal things before new ones spawn, the turn ends. They also die without magical leadership, so that helps.

Here are the turn files, both for the Mod caster as attacker or as defender.

[K]

And the other file.

[MaxWilson]

Very interesting, thanks.

-Max

[Darkstone]

I guess it's nice to see that whole 'MOD + retreat = instant win' has been debunked.

Thanks for taking the time.

[Ironhawk]

How is one victory against MoD equivalent to debunking it? I dont believe that anyone who advocates banning the spell has lobbied that it was literally impossible to defeat all the phantasms and thus the spell. Only that it was so hard as to be effectively impossible in most scenarios.

[chrispedersen]

This goes along with what I have argued -

For SC's - this spell *is* impossible to defeat. Similarly, armies with a few, slow units.

Question: Can't this spell be defeated by battlefield damage spells?

Cant this spell be (fairly readily) defeated by spells like Howl? The trick is to get widespread coverage - something that howl, and other similar spells do. I imagine that 3 mages, detailed to do nothing to delay and cast howl would take care of this issue.

[thejeff]

Problem is, they'll still only cast Howl five times max. It's unlikely they'll deal with it that quickly.

[MaxWilson]

Ironhawk said:
How is one victory against MoD equivalent to debunking it? I dont believe that anyone who advocates banning the spell has lobbied that it was literally impossible to defeat all the phantasms and thus the spell. Only that it was so hard as to be effectively impossible in most scenarios.

I certainly got the impression from the discussion that even if you killed all the phantoms, the battle would still continue, which would be a bug (on top of the BE retreat bug). Knowing that this is not the case is useful data to me.

-Max

[Gandalf Parker]

Actually MoD+Retreat might be the thing that makes "Fire and Flee" a usable action.

Something else I thought of is casting "Call of the Winds" on your own province, then setting the leader for "Attack Rearmost". Possibly with the other birds as Guard Commander.

If MoD+R makes other tactics viable then I would shift to being in support of it as is.

[chrispedersen]

I like fire and flee in a variety of instances. Most especially if I have sacred archers with death weapons.