Conceptual Balance Mod 1.41

[Wrana]

Actually, hammers require an Earth 3. If you mean that AFTER you research the higher level of Construction you COULD make first Earth Boots and after that, Hammer, you may also argue that Wish requires Astral 5... :P
Bonus against constructs would be useless too.

[quantum_mechani]

In regards to the cheaper low level blood spells, it's possible they might displace some high level summons, but before this they were not getting used at all. Ritual of the five gates is still theoretically good for when you don't have the cross-paths for other things, and the level 9 summons for late game when you can get the cross paths but not on a lot of mages (and of course the level 9s and the five gates save mage time). It's hard to say how all that falls out in the end, before a few games have been played to late game with the current price scheme.

As for item nerfs, I certainly agree some are way overused. But making items harder to forge is the source of much confusion and frustration. Unlike with spells, it's not clear what is going on when they are more expensive or higher research level, you only see you can't forge them when before you could. I should also note there is no good way to change price without change path requirements. Much, as I would like to (and in fact have in earlier versions), I think item nerfs are mostly off the table

[Jazzepi]

Could you take a second look at Fata Morgana? It costs 40 more gems than Gift of Nature's Bounty, and does almost nothing. It's like a terrible version of gift of nature's bounty, Riches from Beneath, and Mechanical Militia all rolled into one. The additional PD can't damage anything so it's only good when combined with a decent amount of regular PD. The income increase is miniscule (I cast it with a nation earning 1700 gold and went up to 1900 in a test game). The resource addition is noticable, but Riches does it much better and for a tiny fraction of the cost.

By the way, why does Mechanical Miliita still cost 80 gems?

Personally I think both of these spells should get some love. Make them cheaper, and buff the effects if you can. Maybe there's some way you can make the phantom PD better for Fata? Or raise the income boost?

Jazzepi

[chrispedersen]

Beckoning should be way cheaper as well.

[Wrana]

I'd say that the first one of them to be buffed should be Gift of Nature's Bounty itself! Then, probably, Riches from Beneath...

[rdonj]

Riches from beneath is not that weak. Plus it costs almost nothing in CBM. It's perfectly usable in its current form IMO. Actually I think CBM makes it a bit too good.

[JimMorrison]

Well my take on the Blood summons, is a bit more complicated.

For example, many nations already have trouble getting the large summons cast. They push for it, because although it takes significant effort and expense, the cost/benefit ratio of each cast makes up for the trouble.

With individual casts being dropped so drastically in price (I can see them being -slightly- more efficient than the large spell's base effect), it gives some nations a massive benefit, compared to others. For example Helheim/Vanheim can ultimately make good use of Storm Demons at 2 slaves apiece. Perhaps LA Ulm wants to use Storm Demons, they are relegated to their pretender, and for every 25 Demons that Vanheim is putting out, they are getting 7-8 for the same 50 slaves.

So to reiterate, I'm not saying it's not a good idea to slightly reduce the cost (7 slaves is insane for early game, I agree), but to slash costs by 60-70% on them is rather heavy handed, I think.


Also I was going to mention Leprosy. I don't know what gave the impression that it wasn't useful enough, but I always found it terrifying at 10 Death gems per cast. Hitting large armies with it (they're on the move, so no dome) can do more damage in a short time than almost any other attack. Now at 5 gems, in one game I am getting hit by ~3 per turn, and even units/mages with up to 18 MR are simply no match for it.


(Sorry if I seem overly critical about these things, though I admit, I am extremely bothered by the Leprosy change.)

[Jazzepi]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

Well my take on the Blood summons, is a bit more complicated.

For example, many nations already have trouble getting the large summons cast. They push for it, because although it takes significant effort and expense, the cost/benefit ratio of each cast makes up for the trouble.

With individual casts being dropped so drastically in price (I can see them being -slightly- more efficient than the large spell's base effect), it gives some nations a massive benefit, compared to others. For example Helheim/Vanheim can ultimately make good use of Storm Demons at 2 slaves apiece. Perhaps LA Ulm wants to use Storm Demons, they are relegated to their pretender, and for every 25 Demons that Vanheim is putting out, they are getting 7-8 for the same 50 slaves.

So to reiterate, I'm not saying it's not a good idea to slightly reduce the cost (7 slaves is insane for early game, I agree), but to slash costs by 60-70% on them is rather heavy handed, I think.


Also I was going to mention Leprosy. I don't know what gave the impression that it wasn't useful enough, but I always found it terrifying at 10 Death gems per cast. Hitting large armies with it (they're on the move, so no dome) can do more damage in a short time than almost any other attack. Now at 5 gems, in one game I am getting hit by ~3 per turn, and even units/mages with up to 18 MR are simply no match for it.


(Sorry if I seem overly critical about these things, though I admit, I am extremely bothered by the Leprosy change.)

I'm actually surprised that spell would be made so cheap. I always thought 10 gems was a fine trade, especially with penetration gear. If you hit commanders it makes it much harder to micro, and they can get afflictions which make them drop gear that's buffing spell paths, or makes them so retarded that they can't cast their scripts (mute/feeblemind), or makes them lose an eye so that they have trouble aiming.

Jazzepi

[Reay]

I agree about Leprosy being too cheap in CBM. I always like using it with penetration items. It seems to cause more damage than the other rituals over the long term.

[Wrana]

Agree in both cases.