AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

[JLS]

Originally posted by Makinus:
I know that AIC is optimized for Finite Resources, but the AI degrades too much without Finite Resources?

You will find that the AI in AIC plays a very strong Finite game

The AI does have a planed degradation, but this should be expected around 600 turns, and then it will start to decline. However, many of the AI leaders will have enough resources to continue well beyond 1000 turns. In addition, the AI finite degradation is programmable in AI Campaign; so if you desire more or less in the way of game length, please let me know and we will make adjustments.

PTF and I found after 500 turns to be the best setting. However, this was March 2002 and there has been a lot of additions and changes since then. GLV is AI Campaigns strongest Finite Proponent, his latest opinion is that the AI is Solid in all Finite game variations except (ONLY SAME TYPE starts), but then again this start may yield little for the Human Players as well



[ January 13, 2004, 11:13: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

Actually your AI plays GREAT in all types of games and AI Campaign is the only MOD that the AI does not self destruct in when playing finite

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by JLS:

quote:

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Originally posted by Imperial:
Was organic miners for ships left out intentionally?--just curious cause i can build the mineral and rad ones for ships.

Yes Imperial, organic mining components have been excluded from ships and bases. However, you have the Habitat Domes for satellites and the Resource Station has some intrinsic Organic collection

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That resource Station is great, I thought it was impossible to have multi resource type extraction at the same location (((SWEET)))

Profitable to

[JLS]

Thanks GLV, the Resource Station is a fine tool, and may be very useful in Finite games and most FQM games.


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I will structure the AI minesweeping with the delay of there capability in the research files and reduce the High displacement hull types to have less mine defenses; in this way AI strays may be easily picked off and there pop supply lines may be mined with greater success.

However, I will not remove the ability all together from the hulls; as to prevent the Human Players launching an immediate 100 mines from a planet and thereby destroying the AI’s LARGE invasion fleet and its thousands of troops and hundreds of fighters that took the AI many months to muster.
If the savvy Human Players can defeat this strategy the AI also must have this guaranteed ability

[ January 21, 2004, 14:06: Message edited by: JLS ]

[PsychoTechFreak]

I think it is all right as long as mines are not completely useless against AI, I mean a 100 mines (if it is restricted to that number) swept by 2 large AI transporters could be kinda overpowered and annoying.

I have got another issue now, I am not sure how the AIC community thinks about it, let's discuss...

Personally, I do not like restrictions to players at all, especially for ship designs. I mean, it is ok if it is for roleplaying matters to restrict yourself not to build things like organic armor ram ships, massive remote mining battle stations and whatnot, but I think it could be better to do this on a voluntary basis.I always remove all restrictions to numbers of components (which is almost every component), otherwise I would never build a remote mining station with only 3 miners, or a resource station - as far as I have seen it even has got a restriction to one per unit, it is just a waste in space, so I never build any of them.

EDIT: I have stopped my Last game just because of the annoying restrictions. It has been something like: I need resources, so the research goes for miners III and then battle stations - and crap, restricted to 3 per unit. Next, I have to defend against a mighty neighbor, tried 100 minefields , useless: a 20 ship fleet just sweeps everything without even a damage although they do not carry any minesweepers (a look into the AI hull designs opened my eyes). Next idea: I could defend the WPs with organic ram ships, NOTHING, again RESTRICTIONS, RESTRICTIONS and RESTRICTIONS to RESTRICTIONS.

[ January 21, 2004, 21:00: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

[oleg]

I always thought the whole mine system in SEIV is rather silly and I am perfectly happy this exploit does not work against AIC AIs at all. Good ridance, just MHO.

[Paul1980au]

You know you can always create new ship classes in the mod section - a few mods exist with new ship types etc. However i would like to see more flexibility in the ship designs aspects. A improved AI would be need - my suggestions for smart mines (with limited movement), cloaking mines (cloaking capacity) and dumb mines of course standard run of the mill mines.

Any constructive suggestions for possible patch improvements to the mines structure for the v 1.85 eare welcome.

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by oleg:
I always thought the whole mine system in SEIV is rather silly and I am perfectly happy this exploit does not work against AIC AIs at all. Good ridance, just MHO.

I agree with Oleg, the AI in se4 never dealt with mines as far as I am concerned getting rid of mines all together is fine by me if no one likes your compromise JLS.

In multiplier or solitaire games, with se4 and most MODS against an inexperienced Player or any AI, I do not even need to worry about Weapon Platforms, troops or any Planet defense just Mines.

When the AI comes around I launch 100 Mines over the Planet and the entire AI fleet is Dead

This is one more reason why I like AIC. The AI still gets backed up and takes losses the first 100 turns or so and then he gets better and better at Mines by turn 200 most AI Fleets are untouchable with mines.

Also the Human Players gets to play with mine fields basically just like se4 wanted it and the AI is not at a total loss. So when Playing Multplayer with an AI and one Human Player can not take advantage of the AI in AIC and the other 2 Human are fighting it out.

Actually in multiplayer I would rather be next to a Human Player then any of the AIC VIOLENT RACES.

[ January 22, 2004, 15:40: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:

EDIT: I have stopped my Last game just because of the annoying restrictions. It has been something like: I need resources, so the research goes for miners III and then battle stations - and crap, restricted to 3 per unit. Next, I have to defend against a mighty neighbor, tried 100 minefields , useless: a 20 ship fleet just sweeps everything without even a damage although they do not carry any minesweepers .

When I play against Human Players I never relly on Minefeilds but PTF you think it is OK against the AI?

Lets look at the AIC Numbers.

IN AIC just 20 Scouts, Escorts, Frigates, or Destroyers in any Combination with each other would NOT break thru a minefield and ALL would be LOST by that AI including any troops or units.

A Fleet of 20 Destroyers would break thru with heavy damage but a fleet of only 19 Destroyers would all be LOST. The AI allways fleets an assortment of ships so it would be rare to see (if ever) just 20 destroyers in a fleet before Carriers are out and with the fleet in AIC.

Do you have any Idea how much the average AI has in destroyers by turn 100 PTF. In a no or just a Low bonus (about 20 if that) less to NONE in most NO bonus games and can you imagine the position that AI was in when it would lose 20 ship in any mod?

Only the Pshyco and berserk AI race in AIC will come back and try it again, and thats when I go for them, and if it is early enough that they do not have the count to stop me.

But hey, this is just me, when I started the game and I new I was near a Violent race and I knew I was going to have my hands full and that’s the kind of game I like. But if I started next to Ulkra or the Eee even Sallaga, then it would be an easier game unless I ticked the friendly AIC race off.
If you do not wan't an early hard fought game then restart the game if you are near a violent race. Other wise you will need more then 100 mines to stop the Violent AI's that will continue to try to smash thru.

If you where against me you would need more then a minefeild to hide behind

[ January 22, 2004, 15:44: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
I have got another issue now, I am not sure how the AIC community thinks about it, let's discuss...

Personally, I do not like restrictions to players at all, especially for ship designs. I mean, it is ok if it is for roleplaying matters to restrict yourself not to build things like organic armor ram ships, massive remote mining battle stations and whatnot, but I think it could be better to do this on a voluntary basis.I always remove all restrictions to numbers of components (which is almost every component), otherwise I would never build a remote mining station with only 3 miners, or a resource station - as far as I have seen it even has got a restriction to one per unit, it is just a waste in space, so I never build any of them.

Next idea: I could defend the WPs with organic ram ships, NOTHING, again RESTRICTIONS, RESTRICTIONS and RESTRICTIONS to RESTRICTIONS.

How much mining would you want PTF, you know the AI cant keep up, do you want a BASE or a SHIP to robo-mine 10000 resources well thats more then trade with any player, heck that is more then most planets can produce.

RESTRICTIONS
JLS lets start the game at Cruisers I think scouts are to restrictive.

Reduce warhead size and have 20 of them so I can take out Baseships with one tiny scout, instead just damaging them as it is now with with my one Temporal Ram scout.

I like the Resource Station, it is a first. But really, why give them only this at the most per STATION?

1800 Minerals
1800 RADS
300 Orgainics
More depending on the Planets percentage.

Per turn from one BASE and this includes auto refuiling in most systems .

I think you should raise this to 3000 even 10000 for all resources per turn per base, what would this do to a se4 game?



[ January 22, 2004, 15:30: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]