Tip: Template for reducing late game MM hell

[WraithLord]

Originally Posted by Hiisi

Hi, im wondering that?

Is it possible to make spells that create gem sites?

While this will remove one part of gem gens incurred MM (making sure the mages carrying them survive and passing them around at times) it doesn't cover the other part of MM they cause: getting to end game with tons of gems, which means you can (and so must) summon/forge/cast that much more. Plus it will encourage turtling and castling.

[Illuminated One]

Hmm, I think it would solve a lot.

Gem Income is visible.
Sites can be taken over.
Sites can be limited.

And you can certainly do it.

[Sombre]

Really? How can you do it? Enlighten me please.

[OmikronWarrior]

Originally Posted by Sombre

Really? How can you do it? Enlighten me please.

Though I know almost nothing of modding, I do know random events can create magic sites (usually +gold or resources, though), and spells can cause random (or not so random events). If Random events can be added... I think you see where I am going here.

[Hiisi]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

While this will remove one part of gem gens incurred MM (making sure the mages carrying them survive and passing them around at times) it doesn't cover the other part of MM they cause: getting to end game with tons of gems, which means you can (and so must) summon/forge/cast that much more. Plus it will encourage turtling and castling.

As Illuminated One said that sites can be limited, so maybe 2 sites per province. Combines total spell made gem gens in a large game of 150 provinces = 300 gem gens total. Currently 1 player can have same amount of gem gens in late game. So in end game 100 gems from gem gens would be huge.

With number of gem gens restricted by provinces, no more turtling with gem gens. 10 provinces total 20 gem gens = sweet target tag for conquest.

IMHO hammers are the reason for late game hell. Hammers reduce cost of gem gens over 25%. At the same time they reduce baypack ratio of gem gens by 25%. In long run with hammers increase gem gen income by 35-40%. With +35% more gems 1,35*1,25=1,69 more forging with hammers. Playing nation that has natural forging bonus gem gens will skyrocket even more! So remove hammers.

With higher cost of gem gens (no hammer bonus) the cost of opportunity raises significally (also now they could be taken over). I think current gem cost for gem gens are quite ok.

Games would no longer be forging competitions, they would have more strategy (more sites on map = more tactical opportunities, scouting even more important)

-No need for hundreds of indy scouts running around.
-No need for pool gems, if the income is map based.
-No need to huge balance changes for nations that needs gem gens
-As Illuminated One said "Gem Income is visible".

[Sombre]

Random events can't be modded or added.

Seriously, how can spells to create sites certainly be done?

[Micah]

Why are people so keen on preserving the gem generation mechanic?

From my experience playing without them it makes for a much better game, IMO. I'd like to hear why people are so reluctant to get rid of them.

[OmikronWarrior]

As an alternative to removing hammers, increasing the requirement to Earth-5, and thus the cost to 40 Earth gems, would have a similar effect. Only a handful of nations would be able to forge them, and those that do would have other objects competing for Earth gems. Forging a few to get a discount on really expensive items, such as Rings of Wizardry, would make them worth it, but not for mass producing the little stuff.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by OmikronWarrior

As an alternative to removing hammers, increasing the requirement to Earth-5, and thus the cost to 40 Earth gems, would have a similar effect. Only a handful of nations would be able to forge them, and those that do would have other objects competing for Earth gems. Forging a few to get a discount on really expensive items, such as Rings of Wizardry, would make them worth it, but not for mass producing the little stuff.

You sure about that? Saving 2 gems/forging, it takes a mere 20 turns to pay off one of those, and that's assuming you never forge anything better than a 5 gem item with it. And you pay it off in 4 turns forging more hammers, who then pay themselves off in no more than 15 turns. (And did I mention the gems they're paying themselves off with don't have to be earth? You might have earth to burn, and those earth are otherwise worth at best half a gem to you - like me right now in Water Total War.)

Doing this is just going to make the disparity between the haves and have-nots even bigger. As it is now, virtually everyone has access to hammers, so everyone benefits from the ability to rapidly diversify on limited gem totals. At 40e hammers become much more limited to those nations who can amass a lot of earth, and thus other nations get correspondingly straightjacketed into national path forgings.

The only way changing hammers is at all realistic is if you make all the magic paths equally good. As I highly doubt that's going to happen...

[Sombre]

People also get very, very tetchy about the changing of forge requirements for oft forged items. I think they get less tetchy about them being removed entirely tbh.