Conceptual Balance Mod 1.41

[Wrana]

Originally Posted by Zeldor

[but I doubt that people would really protest here, that sites are really game changing].

I would like to take an opportunity to protest. If you want chess, you can make an absolutely symmetrical map in any case. Special sites are large part of the fun - even if opponent discovers them!

[Redeyes]

Interest objecting in a discussion thread for a balance mod

I would be happy if the few sites which provide benefit greater than any other are brought in line, or unbalances things too much in favor of the controller.

I think the Sacrificial Circle and Ultimate Gateway are counted among those, though there can of course be differing thoughts on what constitutes "balanced"

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by Wrana

If you want chess, you can make an absolutely symmetrical map in any case. Special sites are large part of the fun - even if opponent discovers them!

Yeah, some randomness is a bit sweet. But think about this. You are simply playing the game and then someone across the map finds the fabled "I Win Button" site, enters to it with and wins the game. Pretty boring huh?

Ultimate Gateway, Sacrificial Circle, etc.. are practically the same thing but worse since the effect is not instantenous. If your opponent in the former example had Ultimate Gateway instead of "I Win Button", you'd still be happily playing the game, without knowing that you have in fact, already lost.

Straight out confortational war? Ultimate Gateway guy wins since he has twice as much stuff as you have. Slow-grinding resource war? Ultimate Gateway guy wins since he can summon twice the guys you can. Blitz? Ultimate Gateway guy wins since he can instantly turn his gems into uber-cheap summon army.

However, the site-modding commands are a bit limited, so you can't alter the school bonuses these sites give. If you want some unigue uber sites, I'd probably suggest changing them to give high amount of gems (like 5+).

[Starshine_Monarch]

For something like this I think it would be a good idea to make the game announce the discovery of unique sites like these to the other players, like global enchantments.

By a message as simple as "(NationX) has found (Name of Unique Site)," it would alter the game in that, while the nation with the site still gets the original benefit, he'd be more likely to get ganged up on. So he has a 50% Conjuration bonus there and can summon twice as much stuff for the same price. With that announcement, he's more likely not just facing one other nation anymore, but more like 2 or 3, maybe more if they can hit him from behind the his immediate neighbors with stealth armies or teleporting/trapeezing SCs. If he wants the privilege of keeping that site, he now needs to step up his game and be good to his friends in order to keep from being besieged on all sides by hungry nations that want the site out of his hands.

Of course this isn't something that CBM can fix. I just thought I'd put in my two bits.

[DonCorazon]

I have mixed feelings about OP sites. On one hand, they are a blast to find and make site searching exciting. On the other hand, I tend to agree that they can be the decisive factor in competitive MP games. It seems pretty harsh to invest months into a game, and ultimately lose because your opponent effectively was able to double his resources via a site. I'd be curious to see when people post wins, what key sites they had. My sense is that it makes a pretty big difference.

[Zeldor]

I have Summoning Circle in one MP game and I can honestly say it's game changing. My nation is weak on B [Midgard], but I can get hordes out of that site. Really hordes of vampires. And other nasty stuff.

[Aezeal]

well some sites should just show on the map so you get a sort of king of the hill fight for those provinces

[Burnsaber]

I just want to state that I like the fact that there are some super-sites out there, it makes site searching exciting. But Ultimate Gateway is almost like having your own personal secret Arcane Nexus, it's just too much. Here are some ideas to replace the school bonuses on these sites:

1) Make them give lots of gems (like 5 or 6 in single type)
2) Cool recruitables.
3) Loads of money & resources?

err.. that's pretty much it. Althought I have something to add on the "recruitables" scenario. Now that we have the "unique" command, we could make a site that allows recruitment of a special let's say Seraph(with gold cost like 1000 gold?) from a rare unique magic site (since he's unique recruiting him again would just result in him teleporting back). Seraph might be a tad extreme, but I'm just throwing the idea out there.

Replacing the high school bonus site with these "SC sites" would still keep the excitment of site finding. The nice thing about the "SC's" would be that they would be pretty visible and not give some sort of hidden advantage. It might also be intresting to see someone to conquer the province with the SC site and make it suddenly switch sides in mid-war! It would be the obvious achilles heel to these guys.

Since this would require sort of adding new units, it might be out of jurisdiction of CBM. But I seem to growing fond of this idea. Heh, looks like I'llbe taking on another modding project sometime in the future...

[Reay]

I think the rest of the players should be notified in the message log when a bonus site is found.

This represents rumours spreading around the world about this famous site.

I don't think it should specify where it is exactly though? Maybe its just a myth.

[DonCorazon]

I like that idea. It would be cool and maybe help balance things if it specified a region of provinces where it might be found.

"A merchant arrives with tales that a mystical portal called the Ultimate Gateway has been found. His tales indicate it could lie in X, Y. or Z province."