[OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.

[Fyron]

Ruatha:
So you would rather be a statistic than a person?

[Krsqk]

Originally posted by Aloofi:
I wonder if any Iraqi truely belive in Saddam's ideology....
I mean, what if many Iraqis, though certainly not all, actualy believe that Saddam Hussein is the good guy?
I'm asking this because in all societies there have to be a certain percentage of the population that actively support their goverment for that goverment to exist. Repression alone would not make it work. You need people to repress other people.

That all depends on what you mean by "believe in" his ideology.

I'm 100% sure they believe it gives them money and power. What more do you need to believe in (at least, from their perspective)?

[ March 10, 2003, 23:48: Message edited by: Krsqk ]

[Phoenix-D]

I kind of doubt the "suitcase nukes", if they exist, would destroy 4 city blocks.

Fat Man, the plutonium bomb that was dropped on Nagasaki, had 6 kilograms of plutonium. It essentially wiped out the city (21 kiloton bLast)

If you can get critical mass from 2kg, I think the boom would be at least in the kiloton range.

Phoenix-D

[Thermodyne]

Found these over at Seti's forum:

Fun With The French

Donald Rumsfeld: "Going to war without the French is like going
deer hunting without your accordion."

David Letterman: "France wants more evidence [of Iraqi violations].
The Last time France wanted more evidence, it rolled right through
France with a German flag."

Dennis Miller: "The only way the French are going in is if we tell
them we found truffles in Iraq."

Jay Leno: "I don't know why people are surprised that France won't
help us get Saddam out of Iraq. After all, France wouldn't help us
get the Germans out of France!"

Rep. Roy Blunt, R-Mo.: "Do you know how many Frenchmen it takes to
defend Paris? It's not known, it's never been tried."

Blunt again: "Somebody was telling me about the French Army rifle
that was being advertised on eBay the other day -- the description
was:
'Never shot. Dropped once.'"

French President Jacques Chirac: "As far as I'm concerned, war
always means failure."

John Xereas: "Do you know it only took Germany three days to
conquer France in World War II? And that's because it was raining,"

French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin was applauded at the
Security Council after he spoke out against U.S. war plans Friday.
They've taken their own precautions against al-Qa'ida. To prepare for
terrorist attack, each Frenchman is urged to keep duct tape, a white
flag, and a three-day supply of mistresses around the house.

House Speaker Dennis Hastert is so angry at France for opposing White
House policy on Iraq that he's proposed requiring orange warning
labels on every bottle of imported French wine. Let's guess. The
warning label will read, Just Two Glasses Could Make Dictators with
Mustaches Appear Less Threatening Than They Really Are. ---Argus
Hamilton

Dennis Miller: What do you expect from a culture and a nation that
exerted more of its national will fighting against Disney World
and Big Mac's than the Nazis?

An old saying:
Raise your right hand if you like the French....
Raise both hands if you are French.

Q: Why are there so many tree-lined boulevards in France?
A: Germans like to march in the shade.

John McCain, U.S. Senator from Arizona: "You know, the French remind
me a little bit of an aging actress of the 1940s who was still
trying to dine out on her looks but doesn't have the face for it."

Conan O'Brien: "You know why the French don't want to bomb Saddam
Hussein? Because he hates America, he loves mistresses and wears a
beret. He is French, people."

Jay Leno: "Some members of Congress are so upset with this thing
with France that they want to impose trade sanctions against French
products. They want to ban French products like Evian. And you
thought Hollywood celebrities were against the war before....!"

Q: What did the mayor of Paris say to the German Army as they
entered the city in WWII?
A: "Table for 100,000 m'sieur?"

Jay Leno: "France and Germany still say they are still our allies.
You know, the same way Bill and Hillary are husband and wife."

[Askan Nightbringer]

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
Found these over at Seti's forum:

Fun With The French

I think this has been posted before. And stop bagging the French. All they have done is state the position that 80% of the people in the world back.
*Askan takes a minute to rip the Union Jack out of his country's flag and replaces it with the Tricolour*

Fun With The Americans
"War is how Americans learn geography" - Mangled from somewhere

Askan

[Askan Nightbringer]

Originally posted by QBrigid:
As for the ability to throw off the oppression of Saddam, it is possible that enough people do not wish another government. When the Poles wanted freedom, many gave their lives and security to achieve it. The students in Tienamen Square knew what they were facing when they protested the government.

Well in the end of the Gulf War the people did rebel against Saddam. Two things happened
1) The Basra massacre. Saddam's most potent enemy, the conscript soldiers of ethnic miniorities sent to Kuwait, were completely annhilated by Norman as they fled back to Basra.
2) The Republican Guard was allowed to squash any uprisings without fear of suffering the same fate as the conscripted army.

Nobody cared of the fate of the Iraqi people at that time. The aim of the Gulf War was not to otherthrow Saddam. That justification for an attack on Iraq came up somewhere between he's developing Weapons of Mass Destruction and I've got lots of bombs, might as well use em.

Askan

[Thermodyne]

Originally posted by Askan Nightbringer:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
Found these over at Seti's forum:

Fun With The French

I think this has been posted before. And stop bagging the French. All they have done is state the position that 80% of the people in the world back.
*Askan takes a minute to rip the Union Jack out of his country's flag and replaces it with the Tricolour*

Fun With The Americans
"War is how Americans learn geography" - Mangled from somewhere

Askan

---

The French will continue to be the target of my scorn irregardless of objections from down under. The French have worked very hard to earn their place of irrelevancy in the world. Their cowardliness is exceeded only by their ability to over rate themselves. Personally, I suspect that the WWII era German salute originated from telling the Frogs to talk to the hand.

On a more serious note, we should all remember that France has been no friend to the third world. They still maintain a colonial empire, and are often a supplier of arms for regional conflicts. I have no doubt that we will find evidence of French handy work when we disarm Iraq.

[Thermodyne]

Originally posted by Askan Nightbringer:

quote:

---

Originally posted by QBrigid:
As for the ability to throw off the oppression of Saddam, it is possible that enough people do not wish another government. When the Poles wanted freedom, many gave their lives and security to achieve it. The students in Tienamen Square knew what they were facing when they protested the government.

Well in the end of the Gulf War the people did rebel against Saddam. Two things happened
1) The Basra massacre. Saddam's most potent enemy, the conscript soldiers of ethnic miniorities sent to Kuwait, were completely annhilated by Norman as they fled back to Basra.
2) The Republican Guard was allowed to squash any uprisings without fear of suffering the same fate as the conscripted army.

Nobody cared of the fate of the Iraqi people at that time. The aim of the Gulf War was not to otherthrow Saddam. That justification for an attack on Iraq came up somewhere between he's developing Weapons of Mass Destruction and I've got lots of bombs, might as well use em.

Askan

---

Especially the Australians. The way your country treated refugees and immigrants from Iraq after the Last war was not all that kind. Interring them on an island while their fate was determined (should I say predetermined) by the courts. So it is pretty sure that Australia didn’t care much about their fate, at least not enough to offer them a place to live in freedom.

Also, you stated a figure of 80% against the war. Time to put up or shut up, where dod you get your numbers, The Iraqi FREE press?

[Ruatha]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Ruatha:
So you would rather be a statistic than a person?

No, but realistic.

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
Also, you stated a figure of 80% against the war. Time to put up or shut up, where dod you get your numbers, The Iraqi FREE press?

Read the international press, watch the demos in the world against the war, watch how many countries vote against an Iraq war in the UN. It is guessed that roughly 70 % to 80 % of the world population is against an Iraq war. Of course it is hard to poll in countries like China and I would guess that many people around the world have much more pressing problems on their hands then a war against the Iraq so they are indifferent to it. However, to sum it up, one could savely say that quite a majority is against an US war against the Iraq if not backed by another UN resolution.. But as it seems, the US won't get one.