AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

[SunDevil]

JLS,

Three things:

1. You have put together a great mod, it is a shame that I spent the Last four days on putting together my personal mod, and now after already including and implementing four other mods realize that your mod will most likely not be compatible with all my work. So now I am going to have to use your mod as a base and then make any additions or changes to that. I wish I would of analyzed your mod a couple of days ago and saved me some work but oh well. You have definitely put together a great mod.

2. I am just curious during your research why you decided to create a tech for ai advantage and neutral advantage. I also have noticed in your vehiclesize.txt file that some of the resource values for some ships are different for the human player and the ai player.

3. Minor question: In the settings.txt file you have cd music set to false and was just wondering if there was an issue to switch this back to true?

Thanks.

[PsychoTechFreak]

Originally posted by JLS:
I do not think it wise to build Industrial Centers (Robo Factories) or Time Shrine early in a Finite game until needed, it will drain resources faster. Build a few outPosts on uninhabitable planets and Asteroids for the needed boost.

I am not 100% sure, but I think the system scanners, system robos and time shrines do not drain resources faster. Because the bonus is given to the system only, it can be seen on the empire resources screen only, the planet production numbers remain the same as before. Someone likes to confirm/disprove this?

[JLS]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JLS:
I do not think it wise to build Industrial Centers (Robo Factories) or Time Shrine early in a Finite game until needed, it will drain resources faster. Build a few outPosts on uninhabitable planets and Asteroids for the needed boost.

I am not 100% sure, but I think the system scanners, system robos and time shrines do not drain resources faster. Because the bonus is given to the system only, it can be seen on the empire resources screen only, the planet production numbers remain the same as before. Someone likes to confirm/disprove this?

---

Thanks PTF, now I am not sure

I think if it shows on the Planets Resource Production Screen then it adds to the Depletion for a Planet Modifier.

You are probably right about the Time Shrine and other System Modifiers.

I said you would know best

JLS to GLV
Although PTF is the expert in NW & Finite games,
But this is what I would try in a No Warp-Finite Game.

I new I should of kept silent

[ May 05, 2003, 14:29: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by Pocus:
Just tested a bit the mod. Can I use Starliners to transport units, or is it an house rules to not do so?

Also, will AI really uses the troops it build, or will it glasses planet blindy? I doubt a bit that you can teach them to not kill all pop.

Hi, Pocus.

Nope, no HOUSE RULES with in the default files.
Play anyway you want against this AI.
If you find a way to exploit this AI (within reason so your outcome will be a win); then please pass it on THRU E-MAIL please and you and I will fix it (ASAP).

Have all the mine Fields you want by the time the AI has Light Cruisers or attacks with a very large fleet your Mines and Sats are just mere target practice.
As would a Human opponents in multiplayer.
So back them up with a fleet of your own.

Make all the Star Liners and Colony ships you want, the AI will look at them as a waist of your time, however they are not, you can not win with out a very good Transportation system in AIC.
Funny how the AI likes to pick them and OutPosts off ( if he truily thought they were a waist

~Tip~Make freighters out of a Starliner Hull and Basic Life Support, very econmical for the Human Player.
~~

ALL AI in AIC will Capture Planets some more then Others…

This AI has the Ability and in every game with plentiful Foes should capture somebody’s Home World or two. You will see

The AI seldom attacks Blindly, Persistent maybe.

~TIP~ Timely Trades and most Agreements with the AI, is a good road to victory in AIC.

Watch their posture toward you and watch some of the AI races play you.


[ May 06, 2003, 14:42: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by klausD:

I just played AIC the first time and I think I like it so far. But I dont understand why the AI has several Thousands! of units (I play with visible scores) after just some turns. Is this a bug or is this a "feature" of the mod?

Hi, Klaus D.

If you; as a Human Player, build infantry at your Home World you would build 101 of them per turn, you can have 1000+ units your self in just 10 turns. As you can see this does add up…

The AI is programmed for just under a 1000 units (mostly Milita Infantry) in his first 10 turns of the game. This is so it is not quickly jumped; if there is a greedy adjacent neighbor, Human or AI
As I said, this AI captures Planets.

So it is with the AI. After 50 turns and a few Colonies it will add up to a few Thousand units , several thousand by the 100 turn mark.

Tens of Thousands as you reach the 500 turn Mark…

I will let you get to the 1000 turn aand after mark to find out the rest.



[ May 05, 2003, 16:29: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

i found out the hardway about the troops the ai uses. it took two planets from me b4 i realized what it had done. now i keep a minimum of 100 troops on all planets just so i have time to get to them with additional support as needed.
i have had to change my tactics as JLS releases each upgrade to the ai. i would never survive a pbw game because of my playing style, which is to slowly expand system by system keeping fleets at warppoints to stay isolated and no trade or research agreements. with the way the game is setup i have learned i need to have those agreements since i can no longer create massive mining bases as in the original game. thus if i want to create viable fleets and be able to maintain them then trade is necessary.
i have also learned that the best items to build are the settlements and colonies facilities. they give research, intelligence and resources all for 1 facility slot. however beware of building too many at once as when you upgrade them it is all or nothing. if you have 6 settlements built then when you upgrade it is all 6 at once and that can take 2-5 years depending on you construction rate.

[JLS]

~Tip~ Make economical freighters to Carry units.
Use the Star Liner Hull.
Use Basic Life Support not Population Life Support Module
A few engines and a little Supply…

~Tip~ Have a few Tankers full of Supply, on a Small Transport Hull.

~Tip~ Build a Repair Base Station before you make serious upgrades.

~Tip~ Utilize the Engineering Section Component where at all possible

~TIP~ Their is about a 10 turn payback in AIC, when mothballing, so MOTHBALL judicially.

[ May 05, 2003, 16:25: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by desdinova:
i found out the hardway about the troops the ai uses. it took two planets from me b4 i realized what it had done. now i keep a minimum of 100 troops on all planets just so i have time to get to them with additional support as needed.
i have had to change my tactics as JLS releases each upgrade to the ai. i would never survive a pbw game because of my playing style, which is to slowly expand system by system keeping fleets at warppoints to stay isolated and no trade or research agreements. with the way the game is setup i have learned i need to have those agreements since i can no longer create massive mining bases as in the original game. thus if i want to create viable fleets and be able to maintain them then trade is necessary.
i have also learned that the best items to build are the settlements and colonies facilities. they give research, intelligence and resources all for 1 facility slot. however beware of building too many at once as when you upgrade them it is all or nothing. if you have 6 settlements built then when you upgrade it is all 6 at once and that can take 2-5 years depending on you construction rate.

Desdinova has a very strong points. here in his intire Post
~~
You need Urban Communities to win; especially in finite.

However the more Towns and Cities you are Building the more FOOD and ENERGY expended from your economy to supply them. (as in the non virtual world)

Desdinova plan is solid: Build a few Urban Settlements at a time and then upgrade them to a town or Cities.

It is wise not to go past town in Colonial Development until your Economy can afford Cities.

With Refining and Agrarian Communities same thing, don’t research past Society until your Economy can withstand the increased expansion burden.
~~~~

~TIP~ If you don’t currently need Resources, set out some Research expeditions.
The Facility scrap rate to rebuild is very conducive in AIC.



[ May 05, 2003, 16:22: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Desdinova]

question on finite games, i havent played one in a while. i know that each turn your resources drop. is it based on the amount you mine or a fixed amount each turn? if it is based on the amount you mine then using the urban centers would be even more useful since they dont mine but generate resources thru trade and other means. then adding on the industrial center and other bonus generation complexes would seem to be even more beneficial since they wont increase the rate of resource loss either.
EDIT: oops, i am wrong, they do use mining for part of their resource generation but then use other means for bonus resource generation. still they sound better than just mining facilities since some of their resource generation comes from other means

[ May 05, 2003, 16:52: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[SunDevil]

"What will be the new Premise or Concepts of your new MOD; that you will be using AIC as a Base for?"

-I am putting together a mod that increases the size of the planets, adding more facilities to be built, increasing the amount of resources it takes to build facilities, components and ships, and then adding the star wars race packs to the game. I have always felt that this game ("the stock Version not a mod Version.") really limits the options of planets and the amount of space and choices that are available to add facilites. The mod I am putting together is just a collection of ideas to test them out to see if it is possible within this game's structure and ai capacity to work.

The reason why I am using your mod as a base, is since you already have the ai working well, I just wanted to add my changes and not have to rework the ai to much. I am not planning on releasing anything nor would I try to take credit for any of your mod's work. I guess you could relate so of my testing to the concepts of the "primitives" thread on this board. I just trying to add more depth to this game.

"I will tie this thru the AIC setup Traits menu or tech cancel menu for v3.00 next month. In a way for Human Players to choose between Tactical or Partial Fighter Move.
The AI will be set to Tactical only but may have the option if I do this thru traits menu.
What are your thoughts on this?"

- I haven't been on this board for a very long time. Could you explain more about tactical or partial fighter move concept.

- By adding this as a trait yes, I think it would work, but you might have to make double engine components and double ship designs right?
Thanks.

"Sundevil, can you give me a hand designing a race or two for me, if so please choose one to your tastes that I have not done and use an existing as a template… Grand Lord Vito wants to do the Praetorians so any other would be a big help towards Version v3.00 the Final Release of AI Campaign with the [se4 v1.84] engine."

- Designing a new race, or an existing one that is not in your mod? I wouldn't mind doing the star wars races, but then again Andrés Lescano has done great work on this already.