Taxation and Events...

[PvK]

licker, I hope I didn't sound like I was ranting against you. I was just trying to be clear. I had a in my previous post too, indicating I was just teasing.

Then I was trying to explain the ideas behind the tease. I think there are extremists and people who lose sight of gameplay and balance in both camps, and both sides tend to misunderstand each other a bit.

PvK

[licker]

Originally posted by PvK:
licker, I hope I didn't sound like I was ranting against you. I was just trying to be clear. I had a in my previous post too, indicating I was just teasing.

Then I was trying to explain the ideas behind the tease. I think there are extremists and people who lose sight of gameplay and balance in both camps, and both sides tend to misunderstand each other a bit.

PvK

No, I didn't take it personally, I just like the challenge of debating the merits of realism in fantasy based games. Believe me, we are closer to the same opinion than it appears from the Posts in this thread.

The extremeists are annoying from both sides, I like as much realism as is applicable, but I'm also more than happy to accept certain abstractions in the name of game play. I used to love playing board games like Squad Leader and 3rd Reich, until the group that I played with became such rules nazis that it was no longer entertaining to play with them. Not to imply that I wanted to bend the rules, let alone break them, but when more time was spent on the rules than the game... well you know what I mean. I moved back to playing Risk and Axis and Allies, not as much thought involved, but the games were more satisfing since it was no longer about how you interpret some poorly worded paragraph on attrition.


Dom1 and 2 seem to have the right amount of attention to detail without being overbearing. There is room for some improvement I suppose, but its minor, and not so much about making things more realistic, but rather about making game mechanics more balanced. The whole spiel about LI is an example of that. There are several ways to give them a place in the game, but the simplest way is probably the best, otherwise we wind up with changes to the tactical combat model which may or may not be a good thing.

I'm always a proponent of starting with the simple structures, because they are easier to implement, and easier to understand. Once they are in place, and more or less balanced, you can begin to tweek them or add to them to get to the complexity and balance level you want to attain. Your earlier comment about some games trying to be more than they are capeable of is very true, and I want to avoid that line of thinking for Dom as much as possible. Not to say that I don't have faith in the devs to get things right, just that when you start with the complex its orders of magnatude more difficult to get it right the first time

[Edi]

Didn't mean to imply that this is like a life and death issue or anything, the word pound just jumped at me when I read the event list. It really doesn't matter for gameplay purposes, but just seeing it there made me think about it and caused a reaction of major "WTF?!".

I'm not really a harcore realism advocate or anything, I can quite easily rationalize things that don't have much impact and am all fine with abstractions, but sometimes details like this just jump out at me, because I've dabbled with writing fantasy, and the amounts we're talking about here would turn any regular fantasy world upside down.

If I wanted to use an imperial measurement system weight unit for denoting amounts of gold, I'd use the ounce, that'd be 28 grams instead of 450 and change, but if IW wants to keep the pound, that's no skin off my back and won't reduce my enjoyment of the game. I'll still be going "WTF?" and shaking my head at it, but its real net effect is absolutely nil.

I just wanted to point out a humorous little detail, was all.

As for the discussion you've had, licker and PvK, I agree with practically all the points you bring up.

Edi

[PDF]

Originally posted by licker:

quote:

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Originally posted by PvK:
There's a good example of how the anti-realism camp would rather have their game worlds be completely silly than use a reasonable unit of measurement, even when it has zero effect of gameplay.

PvK

Ahh yes, that's the entire point isn't it? The anti-realism camp (though that's a bit of a misnomer, but I'll stick with it for the sake of this discussion) doesn't give two #@$@s what the monatary unit is called. We (assuming I'm speaking for anyone besides me) also don't care what the names of the units are, or how 'accurately' modeled the weapon system is, or a variety of other things that, as you say, don't have a great (or any) impact on gameplay.

I like to think that we are simply more imaginative than the realism crowd, you know the guys who will spend a week debating the impact of a broad sword on a watermelon or whatever inanities they prefer

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So let's suppose the monetary units is called "ton of ****"
Won't you think it'll be somewhat dirty & stupid, even if it has no play effect ?
And why "swords" ain't called "bananas" in the game ? Who knows if Dom world is not a Monty Python world ?

[Daynarr]

Originally posted by PDF:

quote:

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Originally posted by licker:

quote:

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Originally posted by PvK:
There's a good example of how the anti-realism camp would rather have their game worlds be completely silly than use a reasonable unit of measurement, even when it has zero effect of gameplay.

PvK

Ahh yes, that's the entire point isn't it? The anti-realism camp (though that's a bit of a misnomer, but I'll stick with it for the sake of this discussion) doesn't give two #@$@s what the monatary unit is called. We (assuming I'm speaking for anyone besides me) also don't care what the names of the units are, or how 'accurately' modeled the weapon system is, or a variety of other things that, as you say, don't have a great (or any) impact on gameplay.

I like to think that we are simply more imaginative than the realism crowd, you know the guys who will spend a week debating the impact of a broad sword on a watermelon or whatever inanities they prefer

---

So let's suppose the monetary units is called "ton of ****"
Won't you think it'll be somewhat dirty & stupid, even if it has no play effect ?
And why "swords" ain't called "bananas" in the game ? Who knows if Dom world is not a Monty Python world ?

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Maybe we will be able to make such mod in the future.

[licker]

Heh, sigh...

But I knew that was coming

As I said anti-realism was a misnomer, no one championed 'silliness', just nit-picking details that don't much matter, and don't cause most people to look twice

Not that there's anything wrong with looking twice, why just this morning I saw a girl wearing a ... err, no nevermind, this isn't the right forum for that

[Psitticine]

People, for the Last time, PLEASE watch your language. This IS a family board. We don't want to censor anybody, so it would not feel good to turn on a language filter. Please do not force us to do so.