WORLD WAR (1942-1964) Mod

[MarkSheppard]

Originally Posted by troopie

I've done a few mods, actually OOBs. There was the WW2 Atlantis mod for SPWW2, An Atlantis Obat for SPMBT. It hasn't been worked on for years.

Ahem.

[MarkSheppard]

[quote=lukerduker123;833082]

Originally Posted by MarkSheppard

If you decide to go after this, I will throw as much support as I can at you.

I've actually been at this on and off for 10 years

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=31982

I'm leaning towards an "inspired" mod; rather than a direct lift of Turtledove's 191; as a lot of things just don't make sense in TL-191.

Some more of my scribblings?

CSA could adopt 4x4 and above heavy armored cars to make up for lack of industrial capacity.

[lukerduker123]

More than a few things make no sense. A complete lack of armored cars, the fact that the Confederate navy is near non-existent save for a few submarines, the complete and utter lack of any other forces save a single British plane that strafes a boat? There's so much here we can make ourselves rather than relying on Turtledove!

[MarkSheppard]

Originally Posted by lukerduker123

More than a few things make no sense.

I wrote something six years ago on TL 191's inconsistencies: LINK to it, to avoid cluttering up this thread.

I actually might use the 1976 SPI "Dixie" as some inspiration for the timeline; as it aligns closely with my thoughts in many ways:

The Course of the Battle...

On 2 July 1863, the Army of the Potomac, under the command of General Meade, suffered a disastrous defeat at the battle of Gettysburg. The Army of Northern Virginia, under General Lee inflicted some 38,000 casualties upon the superior Northern army. After the Republican loss of the '64 presidential election, President McClellan negotiated an armistice with the Confederacy, which eventually led to the Treaty of Halifax in 1865. As a result of the weakened state of the two Americas, sectional forces in the far west asserted themselves, and. by 1876, the Western American Republic was a recognized independent nation An uneasy peace prevailed in America through the CSA-French partition of Mexico, into the industrialization of the South, through the years of non-intervention as Imperial Germany triumphed in the Great War and up to the point of the worldwide economic depression of the thirties.

It was a time of stress and disorder for both nations, with millions out of work and subterranean swells of radicalism. The shaky governments attempted to deflect the wrath of their peoples onto some exterior scapegoat. 1936 saw the rise of People's Capitalism in the United States, a home-brewed response to the twin tides of Communism and Fascism and the economic hemorrhaging of the Great Depression. "Shares" were issued to every U.S. citizen, and Southern holdings in the U.S. were nationalized. The CSA strongly protested. The small Federal holdings in the CSA were seized. Border incidents flared up. The South threatened to organize a force for a punitive strike across the border. The USA hastily mobilized to meet the threat.

Obstinacy and hysteria won its usual victory over common sense and reason: a major war erupted between the two Americas. The Western Republic wisely declined to get involved. The CSA was better organized and prepared for the war CSA forces crossed the border in strength and made twin drives in the direction of Omaha and Detroit. Federal forces were poorly positioned and sluggish to respond to the CSA thrusts.

Nevertheless, by the seventh week of the war, the situation stabilized into a slugging match along the Missouri River and in central Illinois-Indiana. Both sides were committed to nothing more than holding actions in the easily defended eastern front. A vigorous CSA offensive in the tenth week turned the USA flank at St. Louis and resulted in the virtual destruction of a Federal Army Corps. Quick exploitation of the resultant gap allowed the CSA to cut the Union forces in two. But the over-extension of the salient put the CSA spearhead in a precarious position about 100 kilometers south of Chicago.

Time was running out for both armies Neither side could sustain the conflict at full pitch for very long. At the end of the fourth month, the CSA accepted favorable terms from the USA. including return of nationalized property, trade concessions, reparations (in hardgoods). and destruction of the Missouri Fortified Line in return for Southern withdrawal from the U.S. and a reduced tariff on goods transported down the Mississippi.

[troopie]

Originally Posted by MarkSheppard

Ahem.

There are 2 weapons in the WW2 orbat that will NOT work in WinSPWW2 because of code changes. The first is the Samhara (Darter) surface to air missile used on the Samhara SAM launcher and Lohanastra(Metal Arrow) gun/missile system. The second is the Falkhata (Broadsword) ASM. The code for these weapons has been removed. The weapons types say Unused. I am not going to ask for the code to be restored.

troopie

[MarkSheppard]

I started to look at the SPWW2 OOBs to get a general idea of what I would want to port over to MBT; and one thing hit me -- the Race invades on 30 May 1942, dramatically diverging the history of aircraft and fighting vehicle design for everyone; in particular the United States.

For example, one reason the Sherman was kept so long was that shipping space and landing craft design mandated something relatively light (30-35 tonnes) which let more be fit onto cargo ships or could be loaded onto landing craft that could use non-strategic materials.

But if the US is fighting against the Race in the Continental United States; then that suddenly means that the US heavy tank line that stagnated historically; jumps to the front -- within limits of course -- because if the US is now fighting tank battles in CONUS, then that means the Sherman can't be killed off right away, because it's in production and it would take too long to retool the factories.

[Suhiir]

Porting over to MBT makes the best sense, and won't be to hard for the most part as the 1946 equipment/OOBs in MBT are pretty much the same as those used during WW II.

As to a heavy US tank, while the Pershing might be accelerated it also has LOTS of teething problems and given the supply/maintenance problems an invasion of the US would cause I really doubt they'd trade in reliable and numerous Shermans for unreliable and rare Pershings.

[Imp]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

Porting over to MBT makes the best sense, and won't be to hard for the most part as the 1946 equipment/OOBs in MBT are pretty much the same as those used during WW II.

As to a heavy US tank, while the Pershing might be accelerated it also has LOTS of teething problems and given the supply/maintenance problems an invasion of the US would cause I really doubt they'd trade in reliable and numerous Shermans for unreliable and rare Pershings.

My understanding mirrors Suhiir, reliability was a priority.
Of course the Sherman was good enough for the job as it was mainly facing infantry or tanks with supply issues so a change in threat might have shaved a few months off the R&D.

[MarkSheppard]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

As to a heavy US tank, while the Pershing might be accelerated it also has LOTS of teething problems

Actually, the M6 Heavy tank was what I was thinking of.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by MarkSheppard

Actually, the M6 Heavy tank was what I was thinking of.

Even worse
There was a reason the H6 was never fully developed.