How to mod Angels to not be wimps. - Page 2

Soapyfrog · #11 September 29th, 2004, 03:33 PM

So its possible then that angels may do pretty well vs devils, although it looks to me like Devils still have the edge... and are MUCH MUCH cheaper...

Arryn · #12 September 29th, 2004, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Soapyfrog said:
So its possible then that angels may do pretty well vs devils, although it looks to me like Devils still have the edge... and are MUCH MUCH cheaper...

If you factor in the cost difference between devils and angels, the angels are either too expensive or too weak (or both). BTW, this has been said before a while back in other threads. However, until this thread, I don't think anyone's actually proposed doing anything about it.

Zen · #13 September 29th, 2004, 04:00 PM

Easiest way to keep the flavor of the Angels and the Devils is to change the Flambeau in length to one more than the trident (You also didn't account for the double attacks of the Devil and the paralytic poison of the tail) and add in a decent about of att. (I'd say 4 is enough).

Thus the Angel will repel (occasionally) a devil thrust, and has a much greater chance to one hit the devil away. This doesn't impact normal troops because it's not the fact that angels can hit normal troops but that normal troops can't hit the Angel.

Also lowering the cost of the Angel spells by 1/3 (35 for Angelic Host) would even them out. (5 Astral per Angel, including the commander).

atul · #14 September 29th, 2004, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Arryn said:
However, until this thread, I don't think anyone's actually proposed doing anything about it.

I liked the damage shield that worked specifically against undead Zen (IIRC) mentioned a while back when discussing Virtue. Probably angels would be given a slightly weaker Version should there ever be such a shield. Wouldn't keep them alive any longer without some marble warriors -level buffs, though.

NTJedi · #15 September 29th, 2004, 04:25 PM

Also keep in mind how many different types of devils and demons exist in the game compared to how many angel type units. This is another unbalance... hopefully adjusted with Dominions_3.

Combine the above with how there are so many more bad events which kill population it seems this fantasy universe is doomed for the forces of good.

Boron · #16 September 29th, 2004, 04:30 PM

First what's the cost of an angel ?
If you say the commanding arch angel is worth 20 pearls than each of the 6 angels costs 5 astral pearls . That is not so bad especially when you clamhoard .
Devils are sure cheaper though .

A angel has an attackskill of 15 and defence of 13 but he is sacred .
The devil has attack 18 with trident and 17 with barbed tail , 16 defence .

The main problem is imo that the angel has only 17 hp + 7 protection while the devil has 35 hp and 8 protection .

As it is the angel ( without bless effets ) hits ~36% of the time will the devil hits the not waterblessed angel 85,5% with his trident and 79,7% with his barbed tail .

As Zen said the devil has enough damage potential to kill the angel in 1 combat round .
21 + 2d6 oe damage with trident + 12 + 2d6 oe damage with barbed tail .

I think a good idea would be to give the Angel 25 - 30 hp .

Giving the angel 4 more attack as Zen suggested is too much : He has already a flamebeau and if you run a fire 9/10 bless for +4/5 additional attack then suddenly the angel would have an attackrating of 23-24 !
Then he would be the bane of all banelords , tartarians and other SCs because he has a flamebeau .

Hm really hard to balance the angel imo . If you make him too strong he wipes out either normal troops extremely well too or he is the bane of all undead/demon SCs .
As it is now his relatively low hp , protection and defense let the angel die after 1-2 hits though and he gets hit too much .

Zen · #17 September 29th, 2004, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Boron said:
Giving the angel 4 more attack as Zen suggested is too much : He has already a flamebeau and if you run a fire 9/10 bless for +4/5 additional attack then suddenly the angel would have an attackrating of 23-24 !
Then he would be the bane of all banelords , tartarians and other SCs because he has a flamebeau .

Heh, a Blessing that actually works for it's blessed units?!?! OMG.

An Angel that is the bane of all Undead?!? OMG.

Keep away from that, most assuredly.

Arryn · #18 September 29th, 2004, 04:44 PM

Careful, Zen. Haven't you noticed by now that Boron doesn't react well to sarcasm?

PDF · #19 September 29th, 2004, 05:18 PM

Well,
I remarked Angels are quite weak, but didn't bother much because :
1/ When you get Angels you get a very cool leader with F3. With devils you have either units+basic leader , or 1 mage leader, but not both
2/ As far as The Eternal Battle Between Georges and Saddam uhh.. no Angels and Devils is concerned

, did you look at the *other* Angel-type guy, the Harbinger ? Horn = AoE 5 attack str 5AP, x3 vs devils, this could kill 12 devils in 2 rounds

!! Guy costs 25 pearls, not that expensive.

So the "angel" side ain't that poor ... But I agree that stg like say Att+2 def+4 and Prot to 10 will make the basic Angeltrooper more worthwhile.

Boron · #20 September 29th, 2004, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Arryn said:
Careful, Zen. Haven't you noticed by now that Boron doesn't react well to sarcasm?

Lol .
That's perhaps a language thing lol

If the sarcasm is not absolutely clear it is a bit hard to know if this is sarcasm or not .

Back on the topic though with Zens suggestion the Angel then together with a firebless might be really frightening even to an Ice devil SC e.g. but why not this should be his role i guess .
His low hp + def let him die still pretty easy to non undead/demons .