Atlantis and upkeep/supply

[Wendigo]

Yup, I meant twice as much as a normal trooper for shamblers (2 supply per shambler) and missremembered regarding lobsters thinking they were size6 when they are size5, so it's indeed 4
supply per lobster and not 5.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Taqwus said:
Supply consumption is

MIN(size-1, 1)

MAX, not MIN. Or else, I'd play Jotunheim every time - or maybe the Hoburg mod: huge hoburg armies that don't consume anything, who can beat that?

[ioticus]

I think I see the source of my upkeep problem. I kept casting Sea King's Court and each troll costs 10 gold in upkeep!

[Nagot Gick Fel]

splooger said:
I think I see the source of my upkeep problem. I kept casting Sea King's Court and each troll costs 10 gold in upkeep!

Nope, only the Sea Kings cost that much, ordinary Sea Trolls cost 3 times less. That's not the source of your supply problems anyway, since these critters don't eat.

[ioticus]

Nope, only the Sea Kings cost that much, ordinary Sea Trolls cost 3 times less. That's not the source of your supply problems anyway, since these critters don't eat.

OK, but still after you cast it 10 times that's 600 gold in upkeep.

[archaeolept]

yeah, no doubt that's quite a bit. on the other hand, you'll have 10 sea kings and 150 trolls. those have got to be good for something

[The Panther]

I have always considered it totally ludicrous that sea trolls and trools cost upkeep while all other summons are free. It really destroys the ability to use water gems for summons. It is one of the many things that make water gems less useful than other types of gems.

You can improve your gold upkeep problem by using Mother Guards, who are half the upkeep compared to the other Atlantis national troops. MGs, especially with a water 9 bless, are powerful critters indeed.

Of course, the MGs at size 3 are the worst possible thing for your supply problems. It is a HUGE increase when going from 1 required supply for your spearmen to 2 for the MGs. You are on the right path, though, building wineskins, cauldrons, and even summer swords, all which stack on a single commander. Just bring along 4-5 scouts always on hide and sneak carrying these items and your troops will never starve. The scouts will not die in battle while hiding so you don't risk losing your needed supply bonuses with the death of the wrong leader (per Murphy's law).

[Graeme Dice]

splooger said:
Also, isn't upkeep based on troop size? Atlantis' troops are sizes 2+, so they require a lot of upkeep.

Upkeep is based on purchase cost. Supply usage is based on unit size. The upkeep for a unit is 1/15 of its gold cost per turn, or 1/30 if the unit is sacred.

Any why do cauldrons suck? They provide more supply than bags of wine.

Cauldrons provide 50 supply for 20 gems, winebags provide 25 supply for 5 gems. Winebags are twice as cost-effective.

[Taqwus]

Yeah, typo w/ MAX/MIN.

Once you have the construction research for bags, aye, go with the bags unless you have extremely few nature mages but a glut of nature gems (in which case, why aren't you summoning Lamia Queens and -getting- more nature mages) or need the supply ASAP. Slots aren't a huge issue since scouts can carry the bags... and the scouts can also carry gems/slaves for rationing purposes or items you may want to withhold based on the situation (say, Staff of Storms, although Atlantis with its lack of missile/flying troops will rarely have a reason to not like Storms unless meeting an air nation with units getting storm bonuses... and in that situation it's not like the storm isn't going to happen anyway.)

Using more scouts/slots also somewhat reduces the impact of a spell remotely killing one of your scouts.

The sea troll summons might still be interesting for the Sea Kings; what are the requirements for Quickening, for instance? The trolls themselves, hm... perhaps not that impressive. Perhaps clams, then Abominations for something still vaguely thematic (more R'lyeh ish 'tho) after you're done equipping the Elemental Queens of Water. Or Wolven Winter + Murdering Winter...

[ioticus]

So you benefit from supply items carried by scouts and other units that aren't commanding the troops themselves?