Vampire Queen mod

[Zapmeister]

So how would you mod the VQ, Graeme?

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Zapmeister:
So how would you mod the VQ, Graeme?

How would I do it? I'm not entirely sure. I'd probably increase her cost to 150 points to represent the fact that she's a better combat unit than the other immortals. I'd also increase the costs for new paths to somewhere between 50 and 80 so that she's less versatile. I'd try and make it so that Ermor would have to make a choice between a powerful combat pretender, and a powerful mage pretender, and not be able to have both in one package.

I'd really rather mod all the items however, so that none of them gave more than the 75% resist from the dragon scale armors. If you want multiple immunities, then you have to spend at least two slots to get them, which would leave you open to the other types of magic that you'll encounter.

[Yossar]

I think I would keep or slightly decrease her cost and then bump her path cost way up, maybe to 80. Hardly anyone complains about vampire lords because they only get access to death and blood. It's only when you add in all the support spells that things start getting a bit ridiculous. Ermor can probably still afford a pretty badass VQ, but that's just the nature of Ermor.

[Norfleet]

The problem with raising any costs is that you'll sabotage any games that presently exist: Every single game with one in it will be instantly rendered effectively unplayable. That can thus effectively be ruled out as an option. It would make more sense to lower the costs of other, currently considered unattractive, pretender chassis to make them more viable options.

Of course, as Graeme points out, the real issue at hand is probably the fact that Elemental Armor is TOO nice: Full immunity to any kind of elemental attack really reduces the number of ways you have to kill a tricked out no-encumberance SC with high defense and many shields....which can be done with more than just the VQ. If Elemental Armor was reduced to 75/all instead of full 100/all, as Graeme suggested, the problem would be far less pronounced.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Norfleet:
The problem with raising any costs is that you'll sabotage any games that presently exist:

One could always make a new unit that looks identical to the current one with a different ID number, and replace the one in the pretender choice screen with the new VQ.

[SelfishGene]

What do people consider to be a 'typical' SC Vampire Queen build? I really don't have much experience with SCs so im unsure in judging good performance from bad, and so i can't really tell if VQs are as bad as this thread implies.

And maybe add the 'next best thing', a Dragon or Dagon pretender or whatnot, for comparison.

[Zapmeister]

The problem with raising any costs is that you'll sabotage any games that presently exist

It could be done with a mod, which would only affect games started with the mod, right? Then, after a respectable period of time has elapsed, the mod could be incorporated into a patch if it has gained general acceptance (in Illwinter's opinion).

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by SelfishGene:
What do people consider to be a 'typical' SC Vampire Queen build?

Try one with Death 3, water 2, earth 2, air 4, fire 2. This is barely affordable for a couple of the living nations, and definetly available for the undead ermor themes. Research alteration 3, enchantment 1. Have her cast quickness, mirror image, mistform, breath of winter, ironskin. Send her out against a few different independent provinces to get an idea of how she speeds up expansion.

Later on, research up to alteration 7, construction 6, and give her some new items and toys to play with. I suggest something like:
Sword of swiftness, charcoal shield, starshine skullcap or spirit helmet, elemental armor, quickness boots, luck pendant, antimagic amulet.
Have her cast soul vortex, breath of winter, mistform, mirror image, phoenix pyre. Throw her at anything that comes into your dominion and watch the carnage.

[Wendigo]

Lol, what have I started...

Ok, my take:

The imbalance from the VQ comes in my opinion from the fact that she's as good (or even better, if you invest in some magic) as the non-humanoid pretenders for early expansion, while being also as good (or better, depending on investment) as the humanoid ones for end-game purposes...no other pretender has such flexibility.

This is due IMO mostly to
1) the combination of Immortality +etherealness +regeneration +life leech,
2) the full item slots.

These are the points that should be addressed in the re-balancing IMO.

However, the Queen is far from invulnerable in the end game. I have yet to face a critter in this game that could not be killed.

The design in particular that Graeme is talking about is well fitted for dealing with troops, but will go down easily vs any SC designed as a duelist.

A cadre of death &/or astral mages should also be able to finish her easily, if protected by an apropiate meat shield.

[Catquiet]

Originally posted by Wendigo:
Lol, what have I started...

Ok, my take:

The imbalance from the VQ comes in my opinion from the fact that she's as good (or even better, if you invest in some magic) as the non-humanoid pretenders for early expansion, while being also as good (or better, depending on investment) as the humanoid ones for end-game purposes...no other pretender has such flexibility.

This is due IMO mostly to
1) the combination of Immortality +etherealness +regeneration +life leech,
2) the full item slots.

These are the points that should be addressed in the re-balancing IMO.

Well, my second Version of the VQ mod takes care of the full item slots. Test it out and see if you like it.