Does Anyone Use Escorts?

[Suicide Junkie]

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Escorts are already faster than Dreadnaughts. In fact they are faster than anything larger than a Battle Cruiser becasue as they get larger than that they can't have as many engines

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That still means there are only two hull types slower than an ES: the DN & BS

I would prefer a mass-based movement system. So when you double your mass, you have to have twice the engine power to move at the same speed. Larger hulls would be able to get bigger, more efficient engines, but in general, the larger ships should spend more space on engines to move the same speed as a smaller ship.

[HawaiiFive-O]

Escorts are a major component of my battle fleets. Don't put shields/armor on them, as the AI rarely shoots at the little buggers. I use them as:
1) Sensor boats.
2) Point Defense boats.
3) Movement interdictors- surround the enemy ships so they can't move.
3) Suicide boarding ships. After a certain point, the AI always puts a Self-Destruct Device on board their ships. This can be inconvenient if you want to actually capture their ships, but it is also the ultimate weapon if you just want to blow them up. Cram 3 Boarding Party modules on board the ES and once the shields are ripped down send the ES in to board. If successful the enemy ship blows up. I've taken out multiple dreadnoughts this way. Use Master Computers if you don't like the thought of kamikaze crews.

[Noble713]

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Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
I would prefer a mass-based movement system. So when you double your mass, you have to have twice the engine power to move at the same speed. Larger hulls would be able to get bigger, more efficient engines, but in general, the larger ships should spend more space on engines to move the same speed as a smaller ship.

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I've modded the ship types to make use of the "Engines Per Move" Option, which was also in SE3. Currently it's set for 1 per move if less than 1000kT, 2 per move if less than 2000kT, etc. As such, a heavy battleship (3500kT) needs 3 engines per move. If equipped with its maximum of 12 engines, it has a speed of 4 (with Ion Engines).

By contrast a cruiser (800kT) needs one engine per move with a max of 6 engines, so 6 Ion Engines make it 50% faster than a heavy battleship, despite having half as many engines.

[Baron Munchausen]

NOTE: "Engines per move" in VehicleSize.txt does NOT refer to actual engines! It refers to movement points! This means that you do NOT have to settle for 1 engine per move and then a sudden doubling to 2 engines per move. You can assign more than one 'standard' movement to engines and then do some fancier math with the ships' engines per move (=movement points per move!) and actual max engines. I've assigned engines FIVE standard movement points in my mod. This allows setting Escort/Frigate to a max of five engines and still getting a movement rate of 6 ('engines per move'=4, max engines=5, 25/4=6 plus a remainder which is discarded). This allows a standard movement rate of one per engine with Destroyers and Light Cruisers ('engines per move'=5, max engines=6). And this allows a GRADUAL increase in engines needed to move larger ships. A cruiser can have 'engines per move'=8 and a max of 8 engines. So, it has a max normal movement of 5, rather than 6 and only needs TWO more engines for that movement. Then a battle cruiser can have 'engines per move'=10 and a max of 10 engines. It STILL moves 5 but needs more supplies to do it. Cool, huh? Then battleships and dreadnoughts have 'engines per move'=12 or even 15, and max engines=12 so they move either 5 or 4. I'm leaning towards the 4 but I'm still thinking about it. A base ship is a real hog. Diminishing returns should really kick in with a ship this huge, so I'm planning to have engines per move=25 and then a max of 15 engines. 15X5=75, 75/25=3 movement (plus bonuses, of course). I presume that the max movement points a ship could have would be 255, but I don't know. Someone will test it, I don't doubt.

Remember, this works with STANDARD engine movement. The bonus movement and the 'extra movment' of things like the Solar Sail and and new mods using this ability for different components will still be 1 for 1 in effect. The same goes for combat thrusters if you've gone and made them available for ships like I have.

[Suicide Junkie]

You must have pretty messed up hull sizes if your battleship is larger than a starbase.

What I meant by the mass-based, was to give engines 15 movement, and have every ship require (Mass/10) engines per move.

So, an escort requires 15 engines per move, and gets normal movement (15/15 = 1 per engine), while a destroyer (300KT) gets (15/30 = half a movement per engine)

255 is definitely a limit on the engines per move.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 25 March 2001).]

[Sinapus]

quote:

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Originally posted by Noble713:
I've modded the ship types to make use of the "Engines Per Move" Option, which was also in SE3. Currently it's set for 1 per move if less than 1000kT, 2 per move if less than 2000kT, etc. As such, a heavy battleship (3500kT) needs 3 engines per move. If equipped with its maximum of 12 engines, it has a speed of 4 (with Ion Engines).

By contrast a cruiser (800kT) needs one engine per move with a max of 6 engines, so 6 Ion Engines make it 50% faster than a heavy battleship, despite having half as many engines.

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I did something similar, but modified max engines to allow movement speeds equal to the original ship speed. Eg., I had battleship hulls use 3 engines per move, but allowed 15 engines.

Just a warning: if you are going to do something like that instead of what you have above you will have to modify the AI_DesignCreation.txt files to get the AI to put max engines in. "Desired Speed" is actually the number of engines, from what I can tell.

But it's fun, and the heavier warships now have plenty of supplies instead of fewer supplies in the original rules. The only problem was that cruisers and battlecruisers don't do too well w/2 engines per move. Cruisers lose a lot of space, not much more than what light cruisers have and battlecruisers have a bit more space than an unmodified cruiser would have. So I'm experimenting with adding a supply storage value to bigger ships to see how that works.


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"What do -you- want?" "I'd like to live -just- long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this..." *waggle* "...can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"

[DirectorTsaarx]

I have an idea that I haven't seen below; I'll try to test it today if I find time (unless someone else has already tried & failed):

Keep the idea of requiring more engines per move (or whatever it really means) for larger ships; then, create special engines for the larger ships. Require research in both propulsion and ship construction to unlock the "larger" engines. These larger engines would provide more movement points per engine (and possibly more supply storage), thus reducing the number of engines required on the larger vessels. Now, here's the part that needs testing: limit the larger engines for use on larger ships using the "Custom Groups" mentioned in the Components and VehicleSize files. I'm not certain if the Custom Groups work or not. I also know there may be a glitch with providing more supply storage in engines, as the AI will create ships with "extra" engines (as in illegal ship designs) because it's using the engines in place of supply storage. That could be "fixed" by increasing the capacity of the existing supply storage component, but that could change the balance of the game as well.

Obviously, this would also require modding the AI vehicle design files, but I'm sure the modding community is very good at that...

[DirectorTsaarx]

A post that's slightly more on topic (at least the original topic for this thread):

Escorts are great for medical bay ships. Fast build, no extra components, just engines, bridge/etc., and a medical bay. Cure plagues fast...

As others have mentioned, I also use them for sensor ships. Not that I can initiate combat in nebula systems, even with the sensor ship in my fleet, but at least I can follow the enemy vessels...

[Suicide Junkie]

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Not that I can initiate combat in nebula systems, even with the sensor ship in my fleet, but at least I can follow the enemy vessels...

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Are you saying that no battles can occur in a storm system? Does that mean that my space station in the storm system is invulnerable?

[mottlee]

I use em in the scout roll, Quantum engines and solar Sail III and nothing can catch em, just dont let em get close enough to use beems on you