Building an imprisoned immobile pretender

[Shovah32]

Try that again with a S9W9 dom10 oracle, the extra 2 per turn helps and also helps keeps numbers 'proper'

[Forrest]

There must be a ramping effect on build up. The astral 3 and Dom 4 of the Oracle have a amazing effect.

It costs 230 points more for the same build!!!!!!!!!

To rephrase Oracle S9W9 Dom 10 costs 230 points less than Divine Emp with the same.

[Shovah32]

Which therefore allows you take take dom10 and better scales.

[Will]

Forrest said:
There must be a ramping effect on build up.

Yes, each level added to magic/dominion above the starting level takes more and more points. For magic, it's level*8 points for each beyond base skill (except for first skill in unknown path, which uses the base path cost). So if you have S1, S2 costs 8, and S3 costs 8+16=24. For dominion, it is 7*level for each beyond base. So if you start with dominion 3, dominion 4 costs 7 additional, dominion 5 costs 7+14=21 additional. So, because the Oracle starts out with S3 instead of S1, and dominion 4 instead of dominion 2, you end up saving a lot when you take those two attributes higher on the Oracle compared to a Divine Emperor. Since you're increasing astral by 8 instead of 6, it costs 56+64=120 points more for that, and increasing dominion by 8 instead of 6, it costs 49+56=105 points more, and the Divine Emperor has a base cost of 35. So it is a difference of 260 points right there. What makes it 230 is that the Oracle has a base path cost of 40, compared to Divine Emperor's 10, which means the Oracle pays 30 more points to start out a Water path.

Check out pp 46-52 of the manual for more details on pretender creation.

[Taqwus]

As per the manual, yes.

The first additional point in a path costs either 8 (if you already have that path), or (new path cost). The additional ones cost (8 x (additional point number)) each -- ex.

Oracle starts with S3, so S3 -> S9 is 6 levels = 8*(1+2+3..+6) = 168. Oracle doesn't have water at all, so W9 from nothin' is (new path cost, which I don't remember) + 8 * (2+...+9).

[lillumultipass]

Ok, I Have tried a few more builds:

1. Niefelheim: Son of Niefel (No oracle for them!), W4, D4, N4, Dom8, Ord+3, Prod+3, G+3, Cold3, Mis-3, Emprisoned
This one looks nice although I miss Astral magic; Above all since I don't think Niefelheim has an easy access to it, right?

2. Man: Imprisoned Oracle, A5, S9, Dom9, Ord+3, Prod+3, G+3, Drain3, Mis3.
The thing is, as I am doing this one, I don't think that Man has great sacred units...I will have to check that.

Maybe Tien Chi was not such a bad idea after all since the Warrior of 5 elements looks like a bargain at 25 Gold and 6 resources.

I am going to try Kailasa also...

[Graeme Dice]

lillumultipass said:
1. Niefelheim: Son of Niefel (No oracle for them!), W4, D4, N4, Dom8, Ord+3, Prod+3, G+3, Cold3, Mis-3, Emprisoned

What purpose is this pretender supposed to serve? The growth 3 is almost certainly a waste, since it's little more than a 6% income boost, while I'd check to see if your production of Jotun skinshifters, Niefel Giants, and Niefel Jarls is ever limited by resources, or just by gold before I took production 3. You could take an E9, N6 Cyclops and get a much superior bless effect if you didn't take the growth of productivity scales.

This one looks nice although I miss Astral magic; Above all since I don't think Niefelheim has an easy access to it, right?

Niefelheim has the Gygja, who have a very good chance of getting astral magic as their random pick.

[lillumultipass]

Graeme Dice said:

What purpose is this pretender supposed to serve? The growth 3 is almost certainly a waste, since it's little more than a 6% income boost, while I'd check to see if your production of Jotun skinshifters, Niefel Giants, and Niefel Jarls is ever limited by resources, or just by gold before I took production 3. You could take an E9, N6 Cyclops and get a much superior bless effect if you didn't take the growth of productivity scales.

True, I guess I am still influenced by my Ulm game where my troops where very resources-intensive and I had way too much gold compared to my resources. Thus, I might lower the productivity and growth sclaes.

But I think I am goind to start with ManLA actually since it has the Warden which looks like a good sacre unit, albeit expensive!

[dirtywick]

lillumultipass said:
But I think I am goind to start with ManLA actually since it has the Warden which looks like a good sacre unit, albeit expensive!

I don't think Wardens are all that great. They're stats aren't anything special (in fact, the Defender is almost universally better). They're stealthy, which is good especially since they have ranged attacks, good stats for stealthy units, so they can generally handle PD pretty well, but can't be blessed if you use them for raiding unless their leader is a prophet, which is bad. I wouldn't focus a bless strategy around them unless you plan on forging some Black Hearts.

[PhilD]

I don't know if native populations change significantly in LA (I've played all my games EA so far, I think), but in EA I seem to find enough populations with stealthy priests (usually they're also low mages).