Fog of war

[Imp]

its not going to happen anyway but as said previosly considering turn time works very well in my view, the best I have come across in this type of game by a long way.

For example, in a shoot-and-scoot mission for a Nashorn. We put the AFV on ambush position and rename it to, say, Tiger II. Both vehicles have the same main gun. Once the enemy is in range, start firing and go the fallback position. Most of the time the "pinned" enemy won't be able to spot your Nashorn, especially if it's only one shot.

May be wrong here as dont really watch that much but think waste of time.
If you cant see the firer the best info you will get on incoming is the weapon type it wont mention its name at all. If it becomes visible over the course of the game turn, takes you time to find it if its not running around units will opfire at normally.
So if under threat who needs to identify its firing at me fire back & its all out of your control.
Think how the game tends to work once its spotted the unit being fired on is most likely to fire. If it continues to fire or move so a bit more time goes by its a positive ID other units have seen or been passed info & the rest open up, sounds like fog of war to me. You might mistake one model of tank for another but come on your example if he cant tell the diffrence he sure as hell has no chance of hitting it.
Not being able to tell if a MkIII has a 37 or 50 gun at range is a fair point but you would still engage if had a chance of taking it out so it would probably be close enough to tell. So even if it was implemented would make little diffrence as the situation where it matters hardly occurs.
Try playing yourself naming all tanks on one side tank & see if it makes any real diffrence.

[c_of_red]

I will sometimes rename my FO units. Only when they are conversions of a standard vehicle. HMMWV's are a good example. Change the FO Hummer to say 1097 HMMWV or what ever and it seems to help. I say seems because if it says FO, the normal opponent kills it right off. As do the non-normal ones. I do it myself. Since the Icons are the same there is no obvious reason for my opponent to right click on that particular Hummer. When he runs the cursor over the icon, it will say the same thing as the other icons of that type. Got to keep them guessing.
I you want to be real sneaky, name a leg FO as a scout. 2 Men, zero sized units that are armed the same. Unless you opponent looks at the class line or the arty rating, he won't notice.
Is that foggy?
My favorite request is having the vis range change as the sun goes up or down. In many parts of the world, the visibility 30 minutes before sunrise is way different then 30 minutes after.

[Imp]

I would say they are acceptable if both players agree, hopefully your FO vehicle is far enough away the extra com gear is not obvious. With WW2 stuff though have to be a bit careful those ring ariels would make it pretty obvious its a command vehicle of some type quite far out. Of course if it spent say a 1/3rd of a turn 1 minute approx in view a positive ID would be on the cards or issuing of army reg specs. If 1 turn represented a few seconds the idea would have merrit.

[c_of_red]

No point if the other player knows. Deception is the essence of warfare.
I'm playing an opponent, not his equipment. If I can make him think I'm attacking on the top of the map when I'm actually attacking on the bottom, das is goot.
In SP both sides start off equal, although not the same. To win you have to create an advantage or have much better kit or troops. Tricking an opponent into exposing a flank or moving units out of position is how you create an advantage. Opponents, being opponents will sometimes trick you by letting you think they are being tricked. That is what makes the game enjoyable.

[c_of_red]

Somthing I never understood was why the Soviets didn't put extra antenna on ALL of their vehicles. SOP for NATO forces was to shoot the vehicles with extra antennas first to kill the leaders. If I had been a Soviet platoon commander, I would have made sure the other tanks in my plt. had a full set of antennas, if I had to buy and install them myself. Pretty cheap life insurance.

[pjbandit2003]

That is how I use the rename. I will take a M1A1 and rename to M1 or Abrams. Sure it may not fool most people but it doesnt give away the actual armor or armament at a quick glance (shoot and scoot). But most armor commanders and also all recon units can tell at a glance that that was an Abrams and not a Sherman, or even a Leopard. Maybe they can not tell that it was a M1A2 or have the mobility upgrades and such. I think that the tactic explained with the Nashorn is kinda cheap. But who knows what unit fired that 88mm round if you dont see the vehicle so maybe rename it an 88mm gun just before you fire and then move and rename the unit back. But completely renaming a unit to give false information is using the GAME mechanics for something it is not intended for. After all it is just a game use it to add to the game not cheapen it. What was really funny was the fact that I was Rightdeve's opponent when I saw the PzII icon and the name was Tiger. (he also renamed his Tiger to a PzII) Kinda obvious it wasnt.

[RightDeve]

I am kinda disagree with the opinion that the shooting guy (if not spotted) isn't going to pop his name up on the replay screen.
Try it yourself guys. You'll see the NAME of the VEHICLE shooting.
ONE obvious thing too: if you Z fire your opponent, even when you're not yet spotted, the replay screen will give the name of that "Z" firing unit.

Maybe you should read the GG on "Game Play Notes" just above the chapter "Various Military Quotations". It's the developer himself to "teach" us that trick. And I'm sure, the developers are waay better than us in terms of game understanding.

@c_of_red : well put man, ALL WAR IS DECEPTION. Why we should leave our opponent deceive us if we can deceive him.

@pjbandit : LOL. That's our previous prematurely-ended game. I'm not expecting much from that. But have you ever wondered how many Tiger I i really have in our current battle? Regarding how many KV-1s and T-34s are smouldering on the battlefield??

In all, it's still better for me to rename units rather than leaving them just that. AT LEAST, we try to deceive the enemy. If it won't work, we have tried then.

[gila]

Originally Posted by RightDeve

In all, it's still better for me to rename units rather than leaving them just that. AT LEAST, we try to deceive the enemy. If it won't work, we have tried then.

Why not just play the game as it's intended to be?
If you have to play tricks, don't that seem gamey to your opponent.
Wonder if it happened to you how you would feel?
And since you are calling others "noobs" tells alot about you.
You are superiour to others because you cheat.
What ticks me off is you telling others how to play unfair.

I'd rather play a fair game and not play underhanded childish tricks.
Trix are for kids we like a fair game here.
Just my humble opinion

[RightDeve]

GILA:

It seems you're really pissed off though my posts in no-way intended to flame someone. I have to clear things here:

1. YOU SAY I'M CALLING OTHERS "NOOB". FINE, YOU'LL HAVE TO CHECK THE THICK LINE SEPARATING MY POSTS AND MY SIGNATURE. THAT IS A SIGNATURE. AND THAT THING IS INTENDED TO BE JUST A SIGNATURE. I don't know why you can call me "Noob-you sayer". But if that signature really pissed you off, I will surely remove that.

2. I'M SUPERIOR BECAUSE I'M CHEATING: IN WHAT TERMS DID I CHEAT? IF IT'S THE "UNIT RENAMING" THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, I PERSONALLY DON'T THINK IT AS CHEATING. I FOLLOW THAT TRICK DIRECTLY FROM THE GAME GUIDE. SO IF YOU WANT TO COMPLAIN, WHY DON'T YOU JUST DIRECTLY SAY THAT TO THE GAME GUIDE MAKER? BESIDES, MY OPPONENTS FOR PBEM NEVER ACCUSED ME OF CHEATING THROUGH THAT TRICK, now why would you?
IF THAT'S GAMEY, WELL, IT'S A GAME, NO MORE SAYING. I personally don't THINK it as gamey. For me, it do some kinda Fog of War. AND THAT'S MY OPINION. MOREOVER, IN THE WHOLE COURSE OF MY ENTIRE PBEM GAME I NEVER EVER CHEATED A SINGLE PERSON.

3. I'M TELLING OTHERS TO PLAY UNFAIR: REMEMBER, THIS PLACE IS FOR OTHER'S OPINION. RECALLED THE FOURTH POST IN THIS THREAD BY WDLL, "NO SCREAMING FOR OTHER'S OPINION". And again, I personally don't think it as unfair. AND THAT'S MY OPINION.

4. "JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION". THAT TELLS ALOT ABOUT YOU! IF THIS IS HUMBLE OPINION, WHAT ABOUT YOUR "UN-HUMBLE" OPINIONS?

5. "TRICKS ARE FOR KIDS". SURE, I PERSONALLY THINK I'M NOT OLD ENOUGH TO BE CALLED A "MAN". I'M 17 YEARS OLD AND AM ENJOYING PLAYING TRICKS (As far as it's not cheating).


PS: Honestly, I want to send this message via PM to you as I INITIALLY think it's not appropriate to be sent in such a public.
BUT, regarding your PUBLIC-FLAMING post against me, it is obviously fair, 1 - 1, for me.
AND REMEMBER, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO FLAMED ME FIRST, ACCUSING ME OF CHEATING, IS THAT AN HONORABLE WAY OF WRITING POST? SURELY NOT!


AND I HOPE THIS MESSAGE REACH YOU SOON BEFORE IT BE DELETED BY SOMEONE CALLED MODERATOR.

Oyeah, one last thing, THIS IS MY FIRST TIME IN THIS FORUM BEING OFFENDED AND FLAMED SO OBVIOUSLY. I THINK YOU SHOULD GO OFF THIS SITE IF YOU DON'T MIND
YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH PISSED I AM RIGHT NOW!


Cheers, and best regard to our dearly friend GILA.

[Suhiir]

>Tosses a bucket of cold water on this thread hoping it will cool down and get back on track<