Paratroops Question

[SCAJolly]

That's a very nice overview.
How about Soviet tactics, late Cold War? I know Norwegian military handbooks describe vehicles being dropped for use in airborne raids. As a matter of fact, I have only read about the use of airdropped vehicles in B.E.L. raids when the infantry is lifted by chopper (thus without parachuting themselves), but for all I know it could apploy to anything.

[AB]

From my stint in the 82nd, I remember that the 'Heavy Drops' (as the tow & scout jeeps, artillery, etc., were called) went out before the troops, since you didn't want those things dropping down on top of your LGOPs. I went on Opereration Bright Star (in Egypt) in 1985 with the advance party, and somehow ended up on the DZ prior to the Heavy Drop (don't ask). It was quite exciting - running around trying to dodge all of these immense bundles hurteling towards the ground. I can assure you you don't want those coming down after the troops.

Unpacking a jeep was very time consumming - lots rope & webbing to cut, and the crushed packing material that has to be pryed out from every nook and cranny underneight the vehicle. If things went very smoothly, it would take 15 minuets. On average, i'd say it took 30 minutes.

Dropping the vehicles for 10' is called LAPES - Low Altitude Parachute Extraction System. i only saw it once, at a VIP (CAPEX) show, because it ruined too many vehicle to do that often. The vehicles had several feet of energy absorbing material (like a heavy corrugated cardboard) beneight them to absorb the shock of landing. It was not easy to free the vehcile from all of this crushed material, certianly harder than undooing four quick release. Dropping a vehicle without this material would likely destroy it, almost as if it were dropped from 10' while traveling forward at 100mph. It is one of those things that looks good in shows, but not in real life.

If you think the US army would would never fake something in a show, think again. I once did a VIP (capex) where one company did the parachute jump, and were instructed to just lay down upon landing. A second company then sprang up a minute or two later, with all their gear unpacked. This took place behind some small rises, so the audiance was suitable impressed with the speed that airborne soldiers could prepare themselves after a jump.

Oh, and we young paratroopers refered to the 'big' women at the bars as 'heavy drops'.

[SCAJolly]

TEN FEET? Ohwow, I can imagine that, but then again I can't... How was the "bed" shaped, in order not to roll over and crush the vehicle?

[Shadowcougar]

its fun to watch a LAPES and see the pallet have a chute not open. its amazing how far the pallet will go. just need to make sure that the plattet isn't coming your way.

BTW... about 10 years ago the local news team from here was at a demo when there was a major accident. the C130 dropped the LAMPS and then bounced on the ground at the Sicly drop zone. the C130 crew and some others didn't make it. just to highlight how dangerous it is. the crew had be doing that drop for weeks before the drop to show off to the locals.

[Listy]

Tip for senario desginers: Can't you dismout the Crew for a vehicle and then drop them both seperatly? or would the vehicle start the game as destroyed?

[PlasmaKrab]

Good idea to simulate separate dropping. Bound to be doable.

But as Andy said,

I was going to remove the ability of vehicles to be thrown off planes while dangling on big hankies (It was not a design decision to alow vehicles to drop, it was a side effect the playtesters found, and I was going to remove as an unintended bug, but they persuaded me to leave it in with the above caveat - that the higher casualties were vehicles which were destroyed or renderd unserviceable by the drop .

So you will have the worst of both worlds if you try that with the present parameters:

Crews landing apart AND half of the crews and vehicles surviving...
Since only the origianl crew can mount a precise vehicle, probability laws will get you with not a single running vehicle...

[Marek_Tucan]

AFAIK Russians have tested dropping BMD's with crews in, but due to extreme risk they've decided to limit it only to commander and driver and IIRC later on they've abandoned the practise completely.
IIRC one of the main reasons - after the overall risk - was very bad psychical state of crew during the drop in the vehicle, as they were closed for a long time inside that small metal coffin, with all periscopes covered by bags with parachutes, and they were just waiting until they'll be thrown out of the plane. Not too comforting feeling I'd guess.

[PlasmaKrab]

From JED database:

The BMD-3 can be airdropped from transport aircraft with the complete crew remaining inside the vehicle. In the past, the crew was dropped separately, and it often took a considerable time for them to locate the vehicle. By dropping the vehicle with its crew ready in the vehicle, the element of surprise associated with airborne operations is enhanced.

This confirms what you said about early BMDs, but adds its own grain to the problem, since it means some vehicles could be dropped ready, in some extent. This text sounds like manufacturer advertisement, so I won't trust it too much regarding the ability of this thing to roll on without any packaging to remove or parts to mount back on...

[SCAJolly]

Have anyone run any tests on dropping BMDs? I just did, twice, and not once did I NOT lose a crewman. Perhaps dropping crew separately shouldn't be such a bad idea?
On five out of twelve occasions, I lost both crewmen. These statistics aren't good.
As for BMDs being dropped with the crew inside in real life... I bet the Russian ministry of defense has an expense post in vodka for that.

[PlasmaKrab]

Is it me or is the 'bail out crew' function not available in the deploy phase? Since I don't have an English keyboard I fumbled for a while looking for it, found it once test game started, but it won't work in the editor.
Anyone knows how to get round this? I was going to test this 'separate crew dropping' technique (still quite sure the survivors would be useless at best) but then...