Solar Vicinity beta v0.8

[Shadowstar]

I use Sky3d. It's a great program and it gives you an interface that simulates flying around the galaxy. It uses 3d graphics and you can set all kinds of options for it. It also has reference views and local space views available that let you view the stars from any angle and within a specific sphere (you can set the radius with zoom in/zoom out), also planets within the system and contains detailed information about every object in the database. I use it in my art to see what the stars look like from other star systems. If you've ever wondered how the constellations might change if you viewed them from Altair or Betelgeuse, Sky3d is a great program.

Unfortunately, to avoid overcrowding the map, I fibbed the scale quite a bit (which I forgot to mention). My map covers a 20 LY radius (more or less), stretched a bit at the corners. I would have done the map to scale, but I knew right away (after learning that one space is equal to 10 LY) that it would be too much work. And besides, you can't have more than one system in a grid space. To make a realistic representation of the universe (where many star systems are often within 1-5 LY of each other in clumps), you simply cannot make a map to scale in this game.

[Phoenix-D]

"And besides, you can't have more than one system in a grid space."

Actually.. you can.

Phoenix-D

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings.

I took a look at your map and must say I'm impressed by the extreme detail right down to the mini moons of Jupiter and Saturn.

However, I thought I might warn you that when you have a planet selected as a start point that has a moon, the game will make one the moon as the start point instead - converting it's atomsphere to the one used by the race and even an blank image when the game converts a small or tiny moon for habitation by a Gas Giant race...

[Shadowstar]

I tried to place additional systems in single grid spaces and the editor didn't like it. I think it either did some strange stuff or it crashed (I noticed it likes to crash if you try something too strange).

As for start points, I've tested the Earth start point in several game starts and it seems to work just fine. It doesn't make the moon the homeworld, it uses Earth as it should. I've tried using other races and it converts Earth's atmosphere to that race's atmosphere as I expected. Most of the start points are in empty space (systems that normally have no planets or those that have the starting points as the outermost planet) though a few are on specific planets.

Because I used a numerical planet naming scheme (in order to get proper notation of planet moons and submoons as well as proper notation of binary systems), I had some trouble with the game improperly naming empty-space starting points (for instance, a homeworld in the 2nd orbit would be named as the first planet in a system when there was already one). I'd end up with things like "Tau Ceti 1" for one planet and then another one nearby "Tau Ceti I". I considered using the roman numeral convention that the game uses but it just became too weird when I ended up with things like "Epsilon Eridani IVa" and such. People would be thinking "IVa??"... Whereas "Epsilon Eridani 4a" makes more sense and is proper notation. You can imagine how binary systems would appear: "Sirius BIIIa" is confusing, but "Sirius B3a" makes a bit more sense.

As for incorrect starting planets, I'm not too sure how to go about solving that, aside from making every homeworld in the game an empty-space starting point in the outermost planet of its system (for proper notation), which is horribly unrealistic. I suppose I could put specific starting points for each race in the map, but then you'd have to use a specific order of races and there would be much less variety.

I've noticed, however, that sometimes it gets the atmospheres wrong for starting points on planets. Strange thing is, sometimes it works just fine and it converts whatever the starting planet is into that race's homeworld type, but sometimes it doesnt. If anyone knows more about why it does this and the conditions surrounding it, maybe I can fix the map so that it works properly for all races.

So far, I haven't noticed the game using any moons at starting points as homeworlds. As far as I've tested it, it uses the largest planet at the starting point (which is never a moon). I tried to make all the starting-point planets medium sized, which works for every planet type and is fair. The starting points in empty space are up to the game to generate.

[ May 30, 2002, 06:31: Message edited by: Shadowstar ]

[Phoenix-D]

You can imagine how binary systems would appear: "Sirius BIIIa" is confusing, but "Sirius B3a" makes a bit more sense."

It's not that bad.. the moons do it, and it's not hugely confusing.

Placing multiple systems on a single grid has never caused a crash for me. *shrug*

[Captain Kwok]

Ok. Well I guess that Malfador has fixed that bug in a recent patch. It used to try me crazy.

[Shadowstar]

heh oops I edited my message after your Posts.

More than anything else, I wanted to keep the planet notation as clean as possible. If I went with roman numerals, I was afraid I might end up getting into some horribly twisted number strings.

I thought about a planet having a notation such as "BVIIIaII" and opted for the simpler "B8a2", referring to the second sub-moon of the first moon of the eigth planet orbiting the second star of a system. As far as I've ever seen it, roman numerals are never used in scientific planetary astronomical notation. Of course, a counterpoint to that would be that we haven't yet confirmed the existence of any moons outside the solar system (we can't see objects that small without actually travelling there, only guess that they might be there in the best cases), so it's really more that nobody can say what the proper notation is/will be. I'm just going on personal experience...

Hmmm... I've thought about this too much I think.

[ May 30, 2002, 06:42: Message edited by: Shadowstar ]

[Captain Kwok]

I wouldn't mind using a robo-miner around one of your planets like Jupiter - it would generate literally 25000 resources per turn from all of the planetoids located there...

[Shadowstar]

I've been experimenting with the concept of having multiple systems in single grid spaces.

It's tricky, but basically I can do it without crashing as long as I don't try to delete any of the systems in the space. If I do, I start getting errors and the editor becomes unstable.

The only problem is that you can only edit one of the systems in the space at any time. If you want to edit or even view the others, you have to move each system out one by one.

Unfortunately, it seems that having multiple systems in a single space is impractical. There is no way to choose any but the topmost system in the game, and thusly no way to manage your planets, ships, or anything else in the systems beneath the first one in the space. Plus it makes the editor and the game unstable with occasional errors cropping up. Perhaps it could be made into a practical concept with a mod?

[Shadowstar]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
I wouldn't mind using a robo-miner around one of your planets like Jupiter - it would generate literally 25000 resources per turn from all of the planetoids located there...

It's kinda realistic when you think about what those robo-miners are capable of. Although most of those moons are worthless and would be mined out quickly, limiting the length of time you could sustain such a huge benefit. Think about what you could do if you converted 10 of Jupiter's moons into spaceship parts! Heh Heh...

I've found that this mod works well with Derek's Mod and the Proportions rules set. Of course, I find those particular mods fairly realistic and my map is designed to be realistic so I'm probably biased.

Another frighteningly realistic thing to consider is that, as far as science knows, the Solar System is highly unusual, and generally speaking, exceedingly valuable in a number of ways compared to the rest of the known universe. In the game with my map, Sol would be a valuable system. This will invite an increased amount of attention and its central position with many warp points could turn it into the central key position in a major intergalactic war. Now, if the Solar System is as valuable in real life as we think it is, and is as valuable as it is in this map, and there's other intelligent lifeforms out there, all those sci-fi movies about alien invaders may not end up being so far from the truth.

Heh, heh...

[ May 30, 2002, 07:16: Message edited by: Shadowstar ]