Missiles and point-defense

[ExplorerBob]

Originally Posted by sgqwonkian

I think the list of options available to improve missiles is at least:
(list)

Probably, some mix of the above is needed. I doubt any one change will handle all the potential issues with missiles as they exist now. I've implemented some of the above in my mods already. A few of those ideas I haven't touched on at all though, and some I'm not sure I'd be willing to do unless making a totally new mod based around it.

Great job with the list! It'll definitely help with this problem.

When I first started Odd Adventures, the idea was just basically to add in a few neat things. After a bit, the idea became to make WW more like SAIS -- which is still the case; you can see a lot of aspects of the interface that are directly from or inspired by the original game.

Where I originally tried to make it as much like the original game as possible, though, I've now taken on a somewhat different policy, to try to overhaul and improve the game balance, even if it isn't quite like either SAIS or WW. Of course, these changes should be made in moderation; too much tinkering can destroy the "feel" of the game. I've experimented with giving the Tchorak multi-missiles, for instance, with the lava pods, and I'm not sure that it works for them. However, I'm not still necessarily above changing things up pretty drastically, so maybe my mod can be the sort of "testing ground" you can't do in Drives 'R Us.

There are a few things on the list I wouldn't be comfortable adding to my mod -- for instance, I think disabling the Fire button would be a bad idea. While it technically does solve the problem, it does it in a bizarre way; why shouldn't your ship be able to fire on a single point in space? The Retreat button being removed at least makes sense, in that it can be explained that it takes speed to successfully disengage from an enemy force, but that restriction seems a bit, well, tacked on.

This isn't intended as a slight against you at all, of course -- you're just listing off our available and practical options...we may not be comfortable with all of them, but they still are available to our use, and thus it's necessary to include them.

I appreciate your insight and help in this, and I'll consult your list and see how I can apply these measures to try to enhance the existing missiles in OA.

[ExplorerBob]

One more thing, now that I saw your most recent post.

I changed up the Tchorak fleets, when I went to nerf them, and the 1 VM/2 CB/2LP fleet does exist now, I believe, in Odd Adventures...the ships in OA are individually a bit less powerful, but they come in more dangerous fleets now.

It's not typical; I think it's like the biggest Tchorak fleet you can get, but then, the four-Deci thing is kinda uncommon too.

[ExplorerBob]

Here's where my experiments have taken me so far:

Impaler missiles are left about the same, albeit with a new emphasis on targeting fighters, who are the main targets with "low-grade starship hulls" anyway. I upped their reload speed, so you can get more of them out quicker.

Fusion torps and missiles are now swarm-type weapons, which launch five or six missiles/torps at a time. This makes them harder to stop with point-defense weapons. Their shots are smaller and do less individual damage than now.

Fusion rockets have an upped reload speed and do less individual damage.

Multi-missiles are unchanged.

Tchorak missiles are the most interesting -- I have their launcher spit out more than one at a time, but with no curve or anything, so they come off as more durable than normal missiles, and can take several shots before they go down.

[ExplorerBob]

Note that all of these have the side effect of making point-defense weapons less effective in general.

The alternate-universe frigate Dragon's neptunium railguns and missiles will be awfully quaint, at the end of this, instead of being considered abnormally powerful.

At least they still have the double-speed hydrogen drive.

[ExplorerBob]

In my efforts to design an energy torpedo weapon, that is invulnerable to point defense, I seem to have discovered something fascinating!

If the weapon flag is not "shootable", but it still does have SIZE (the first SIZE, in the weapon type, not the one that's used to determine the weapon's graphical size), it apparently becomes an invincible weapon that can be used to block enemy shots.

I found this out when I realized that my proton torpedo was destroying incoming nova cannon shots (and still flying on through, no less). This sort of projectile can even block beam weapons.

This is useless for my energy torpedo, but it's a very intriguing feature that allows us to design more complex protective weapons. Perhaps you could have a "black hole gun" that could destroy any and all incoming weapon fire, regardless of type.

[Lost In Space]

Fascinating thread. I agree with ExplorerBob against removing the fire button. I frequently use it to target different parts of enemy ships, often with the aim of disabling a weapon. I've known about "every weapon can be a point based defence weapon" for a while now, and use it by ordering my wing ships to fire at a slight angle ahead to destroy incoming missiles. Obviously, I'm having more trouble against multi-missile packs, since those little buggers quickly break into tons of smaller ones.

The result of these latest tweaks should prove interesting. I look forward to trying them out when ready, both in Odd Worlds and Drives R Us.

[sgqwonkian]

Originally Posted by ExplorerBob

If the weapon flag is not "shootable", but it still does have SIZE (the first SIZE, in the weapon type, not the one that's used to determine the weapon's graphical size), it apparently becomes an invincible weapon that can be used to block enemy shots.

It's a little unclear to me exactly what you're experiencing or what's causing it... however, I can be reasonably certain it's not just a standard effect of not being shootable but still having the first SIZE line. There has to be some other cause of what you're experiencing.

The game is full of weapons that have a SIZE line but are not shootable. Neptunium railgun, explosive chaingun, PVC, Gluon Web Gun, etc. If that's all it took to create the effect you're looking at, the game would feature more than a dozen examples of weapons that created that effect. Every weapon (or other ship system) needs that first SIZE line, as it determines whether the item fits on a fighter (SIZE 1) or only on larger ships (SIZE 2).

So either I'm completely misunderstanding your post, or the cause of the effect is actually elsewhere in the weapon's code.

[ExplorerBob]

By "size", I'm referring to the bolded text, not the *very* first line.

TYPE projectile
RATE 700 0
CLIP 0
NUMB 1
SPED 100
TURN 90
RANG 1000
FLAG homing
SIZE 2
DAMG 1800 1800

Haven't worked much on OA lately, but might do so soon.

[sgqwonkian]

It's been so long since I've done any hardcore modding, I had to actually open up files and compare to understand what you meant.

You're absolutely right, that does open up some interesting design space for a new weapon or two.