Thug Commanders

[HoneyBadger]

Well, the role of a unit as an SC or as a Thug can change, ofcourse. If you're using a unit to solo independents in the early game, it's an SC. If you later on use it to support troops, along with several other units of similar power, it's then a Thug. I think the primary difference between "Thug" and "SC" is how much you're focussing on them, at that given point in the game, not just on their respective level of power. A Cyclops, for instance, is a respectable SC Pretender, but when you stop using your Cyclops for combat/expansion and only use it for forging, research, summoning, etc. in your home province, it can be argued that it's no longer an SC, because while it's still "super", it's no longer a "combatant".

There's plenty written about Thug builds, but give a "thug" chassis enough choice equipment and empowerment, experience, make him a Prophet, etc. and he becomes a lot closer to an SC.

And thanks for the compliments!

Maybe I'll rewrite this and stick it in the strategies index, if you all think it's useful.

[thejeff]

I have a hard time thinking of things like Sidhe Lords or Jotun Jarls as SCs, regardless of gear. They'll be able to solo some indies and beat PD, but they're still not up to the level of able to handle anything they happen to run into that isn't designed to take them down, that I expect SCs to be at.


I'm really quibbling over terminology at this point.
The two do shade into each other and the expected power level scales up throughout the game. By the endgame even the toughest SCs aren't usually sent out solo, except for thug-like raiding.

[HoneyBadger]

Yeah, I personally think of SCs as being more unique, and Thugs as being more generic. It's still a factor of respective power, though.

[Ironhawk]

Yeah IMO, units never switch thug/SC status just based on what time in the game it is. It really is a rather static assesment of the powerful of a single unit. A thug will always be a thug.

[Lingchih]

I think this has been addressed before, but I paid no attention to it then. Can a Pan be made into a cost-effective thug? They are hugely expensive, but they do have good stats and all slots.

[Skirmisher]

I had read in the Dominions 3 WIKI that thugs were for taking over lightly defended provinces and taking on large common armies alone.
Since I got Dominions 3 back in late June I've been playing Arcoscephale EA exclusively. I guess the Arco's aren't really a good thug nation.
I have pretty much settled in using a rainbow sage with 24 research for my pretender. Since research is so important in this game, you really can't afford to slack on it. Using the pretender for an SC early seems counter productive. Unless the map is small.

[Poopsi]

...I dont think that the pretender´s research is that important, in the long run. Particularily since EA arco has access to philosophers as cheap researchers which can be spammed with ease.

You might do better with a SC pretender so that you get the resources to star your research economy... of course, you lose the gems edge, but you are losing that already if your pretender is sitting in the capital researching.

[Trumanator]

It depends on how weak/strong your nation is starting off. Some nations gain a great deal of benefit from having an early game SC to help out their pathetic starting army, or to help fend off an early rush. It seems though that a lot of the use of almost purely SC pretenders is when the alternatives require a lot of micromanagement and general skill. Not to bash the users of said SCs, especially as I have absolutely no claim to skill. I do tend to notice that a lot of Baalz's guides for instance are for nations that people think need an SC, but he shows that given the right spells and the right scripting you can overcome problems without it while retaining late game power.

[Skirmisher]

I use the 24 research pretender combined with those Oreiad's, philospher's don't do enough research per turn. OK they may be cheaper but I like to set up the pretender and 4 or 5 Oreiad's doing the research,then I make a mage/enginner and make quill pens for all of them.
The pretender has 7 dominion, sloth 1,growth 1, lev 2 in all magic paths except blood. Seems to be working well when playing the AI.

[Rytek]

My favorite thug is Bane Lord
Boots of flying, jade armor,frost brand, any shield (my prefered is the lightning shield), pendant of luck, pendant of MR.
A fearsome raider indeed. especially if your opponent has no access to anti undead.