Germany OOB 16: miscellaneous comments

[Griefbringer]

If they are Cossacks, then I can understand them being more motivated than your average former Red Army PoW that got volunteered to fight for Germans, and better riders than your average German cavalryman. That said, +15 to experience still sound quite a lot (it is what Brandenburgers tend to get).

Then again, considering the hazards that mounted cavalrymen face on a WWII battlefield, those brave Cossacks probably need every imaginable in-game advantage they can get if they are to survive for more than a couple of turns after making contact with the enemy.

I don't think people are exactly fielding these in droves when playing Germans. I am quite sure that I have never fielded them myself, though I have some gaming experience with certain other cavalry units. Maybe I should actually try fielding them in a game some day.

[DRG]

They have been the way they are now for well over a decade and I have no intention of making changes.......... if you're not happy with exp +15 there's MOBhack ........feel free to make your own changes.

The WW2 OOB's have gotten to the point all they are doing is generating really annoying nitpicky amounts of work for me with no real gameplay benefit to 99.9% of the players

Don

[Pibwl]

One thing only:
484 SdKfz 8 FlaK 18 were already used during the Polish campaign in 9/39 - seems, that they were delivered in early 1939 (it would demand a change in formations). It had light armour of a cab and gunshield (1 hull front and sides, 1 turret front?). Crew was only 4. There is no clear info on ammunition storage overall, but there is a mention, that there was a case for 18 rounds at the back (the only storage?) [Jentz Panzertracts]

[Pibwl]

...supplement: there was also an ammunition box with 6 rounds on the upper carriage.
"Encyclopedia Of German Tanks Of WWII" by Jentz & Doyle claims, that it carried 40 rounds, but Panzertracts are much more detailed (Encyclopedia also gives a crew of 9, but documents quoted in Panzertracts state it was only 4 - there was 9 in a version towed by an armoured tractor).

[DRG]

New Icon for this vehicle in the next release...........

[MarkSheppard]

I found a random German Vehicle that could be put in the German Overflow list in BLUE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pz.Sfl._II

Basically, Bussig NAG gets a contract to develop a halftrack with a rear mounted engine specifically designed as a tank destroyer platform. Four prototypes of the HKp 902 halftrack were built.

Of this, two prototypes were armed with the Rheinmetall 7.5 cm L40.8 gun in an open topped turret with 35 rounds on board.

Armor prtoection was:

20mm frontal
14.5mm / 10mm sides
10mm rear
10.5mm roof (except turret)
5.5mm belly

The two prototypes were completed in 1941 and they were organized into a platoon for troop trials with Panzerjäger-Abteilung ("Anti-Tank Battalion") 605 of the Afrika Korps.

The first vehicle was reported received on 17 January 1942 by Panzerjäger-Abteilung 605, but the second was not reported as arrived in Tripoli until 23 February 1942.

The platoon was transferred to the Kampfstaffel des Oberbefehlshaber Panzerarmee Afrika (Rommel's personal battle group) on 8 March 1942.

Only one vehicle was reported operational on 25 May at the start of Operation Venezia during the Battle of Gazala; the other had been captured by the British, shown in undated photographs. Shortly afterwards, on 5 June, the Kampfstaffel reported that the other vehicle had been lost after knocking out three tanks.

[DRG]

I'll consider it. At least the two protos made it to the front

Some photos

[DRG]

There were two fully tracked protos as well and those made it to the Eastern Front
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2-g...panzer-sfl-ic/


Now that one ( Pz.Sfl.Ic ) is very close in concept but it is described as " a fixed open-topped superstructure " mounting a 5 cm Kanone L/60

but as noted in the original post the Pz.Sfl. II had it's 75mm gun " mounted in an open-topped, low-profile turret "

If anyone knows of a source that gives hull length and width It would be helpful but not critical and that example I provided was a WAG for length and width which is probably within a pixel or two of being "close enough" but it would be nice to have actual data

[MarkSheppard]

DRG, I went and looked in Panzer Tracts

Pz.Sfl Ic (5cm Pak 38 auf Pz.Kpfw.II Sonderfahrgestell 901), there's no hard dimensions on it; the cannon was a modified Pak 38 with the breech and mount adapted from a 5 cm KWK gun.

No hard data on ammunition stowage #s; the dimensions given in

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2-g...panzer-sfl-ic/

Dimensions (L-W-H, based on VK 9.03) 4.24 m x 2.39 m x 2.05 m

Are probably good enough.

But while researching this in Panzer Tracts, I found ANOTHER ONE.


*************

Pz.Sfl Ia (5cm PaK 38 auf gp.Mun.Schlepper)

On 5 July 1940, Wa Pruef was authorized to develop a light Panzerjager for the Luftlandetruppen (Airborne troops). The design chosen was a 5 cm Pak 38 L60 mounted in an armored superstructure on a converted VK 3.02 munitions schlepper chassis designed by Borward.

To save weight, the forward gunshield was to be composed of Schottenpanzer (spaced armor)

2 x 4mm plates (front)
2 x 3mm plates (side)

Frontal/Side Armor was to defeat 7.92mm Steel Core AP bullets.

Mass was 4500 kg, top speed was 30 km/hr.

Crew was 3

Panzerprogramm 41 called for 3,144 of them to be built; but production wasn't scheduled to begin until 1943.

Two trial units were built by 1 July 1942 and sent to the front for troop trials. On 8 Aug 1942, 19 PzDiv reported the serial numbers of the two units back to OKH.

Unfortunately, the experience report from Panzerjager Abteilung 19 on this was lost to history -- we know it was sent to OKH on 18 Sep 1942, but a copy of the report wasn't included/retained in 19 PzDiv's war diary.




************

Also, this rabbit hole was worth it for me as a researcher, because I found out about Panzerprogramm 41; something I did not know about before.

[Pibwl]

After a longer break, I'll write down a limited number of more important or easy to fix things from my notes (which are not very extensive ):

34 Sturmtiger - used from 8/44 in suppressing Warsaw Uprising [now 1/45]

86 8.8cm PaK 43 - photo shows Pak-43/41 on wheeled mounting (unit #205), while this gun was on cross mounting, as the icon shows - could be photo 208.

131 7.5cm Haubitze - FK18 entered service in 1938 only and was very rare gun (only 124 made according to https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/7,5-cm-Feldkanone_18 ) - it is worth to replace it with FK 16nA, used since 1930, and still 298 were in 1939 https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/7,7-cm-Feldkanone_16. There is no early German artillery available otherwise.

The latter one had range 12.3km (now 200, proper for FK18)
The photo could be replaced eg. with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5_cm...ch%C3%BCtz.jpg
The icon is the same as 10.5cm leFH - could be 2127 for FK18. In case it is changed to FK16, it should be single tail, eg 2112 with appropriate long barrel

155 Kfz 70 Protze - icon is green and with transversal benches, while this is platform truck.
Protze icons are 3038-3040, like unit 453

220 Pueppchen - icon should be single-tail - shape fits to 8017 (possibly it was dedicated one?)

275 FJg LMG Grp - possibly there should be LMG as a weapon instead of MMG?


304 15.5cm Batterie - it is Polish sFH-17(p), same as French 155mm Schneider C17S howitzer sFH-414(f), but the photo shows French heavy 155 mm cannon. I've found C17S in German service: https://forum.axishistory.com/downlo...5411&mode=view and https://forum.axishistory.com/downlo...7327&mode=view from https://forum.axishistory.com/viewto...?f=70&t=135963

387 JPz I - it is available since 1/41, but they entered combat in May 1940 in France (possibly available from 4/40).
Formations start from 4/40, while the earliest unit #480 starts at 6/40.

Most sources use Panzerjager I name (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerj%C3%A4ger_I , Waffen-Arsenal https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PANZERJAG...-/142979957157 ) - seems, that Jagdpanzer meant armoured vehicles ("panzers").


388 PzKw II C - photo has markings from 1939 (and shows no additional armour), while the unit is from 1940 and has additional armour - it could be swapped with unit 002


417 Panzerbuechse - photo doesn't seem to be Mauser, rather PzB 39. Maybe previous photo 25583 is better. Same for units 634,643 (sw) Inf Gruppe

420,421 FJg PAW ..cm - the name might better be changed to LG (German designation), not PAW
Better icon is 2107 (for the lighter one at least)
Same for 505,506 GebJg PAW

464 PzKw 38H 735(f) - maybe a better photo is former 27506 with short gun? (photo 828 has long gun)

481 SdKfz 10/5 PaK5 - 5cm Pak was used since the end of 1940 only [now 7/40]


502 MG08 HMG (2) - the picture doesn't look German, nor MG08. 2338 is good

622 PzJ Bren(e) PaK - photo has French 25mm gun, while it is supposed to be 3.7cm Pak
Might be: https://aw.my.games/sites/aw.my.com/...83517/37mm.jpg

733 MG248(p) HMG - caliber of captured Polish Maxims was 7.92 (not 7.62) and they were exactly German MG08. I would say it's useless, but it's one of four MGs used by Ost troops in the game, and they have no MG08 otherwise. Maybe it should be just MG08?
(designation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German...n_World_War_II )

792 MG248(p) HMG - seems completely useless. Same as above, but the picture is on Russian wheeled mount (should be 3884 eventually). Poland indeed converted some Russian Maxims to wz.10/28 model, but they were 7.92 mm, and all were sold to Spain before the war, so they couldn't have been captured. It is used in OrPo units, which have 7 MGs to choose from, including MG08.

734 MG249(p) HMG - a caliber might be added (7.92)


831 SdKfz 221 - photo has early white crosses, more adequate for early unit 67, while it is available from 1942.

902 Me 410A-1/U-4 - a photo with 5cm gun is
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/82/85...a900d4ff69.jpg