Esoteric Roman v. Greek Ranting (was Philosophers)

[noname]

I imagine the sloth scale has to do with the state of society in general. The greatest philosophers of Classical Greece were not lazy. If anything, the philosophers worked harder as the rest of society became lazy around them. Socrates was a hard-working stone mason who fought for Athens in the Peloponnesian War, and acted as the "gadfly" for them. He also was a very poor man and could not have just "sat around eating grapes." Plato was a teacher who left Athens after his teacher, Socrates, was executed, and he founded the Academy. As for Aristotle; he went on to found or develop so many things (everything from zoology to botany to literary criticism to founding the Lyceum), that there's no way he could be called lazy.

Of course, those philosophers were Socratic and afterwards. The philosophers described in the game appear to be presocratic, in spite of the presence of the academy. Socrates said that the best subject of philosophy was that of the human being, not the nature of the universe. I suppose that some of those Sophists could have been lazy... To complete my argument, I leave you with an anti-laziness quote from Aristocles (Plato's real name):


"Prefer diligence before idleness, unless you esteem rust above brightness."-- Plato

P.S. Has anyone ever considered making a philosopher-hero in a patch. Maybe he could be the greatest researcher who ever lived?

[DrPraetorious]

I made an undead philosopher hero for MA Arco.

He put up 16RP before bonuses for sloth, I think.

He was a philospher who was cursed with undeath for pondering things that the previous pantokrator thought should be forbidden. I kept changing my mind about giving him magic.

[BigDisAwesome]

I'm glad you reminded me of this Ironhawk. This makes me wanna play around with EA Arco. 10 RP for 50 gold!!!!!

[Mind Elemental]

On the other hand, sloth will cut down on your recruitment of myrmidons. I guess you could still use chariots, if you had an order scale.

[Sombre]

I think sloth scale just points to a lack of backbreaking mind numbing labour. Philosophers are more numerous and free to pursue their thoughts when there isn't a constant need to labour and put their minds/resources to physical production.

[thejeff]

I've never quite figured out how to use philosophers. They're great researchers, sure, but they're capital only. For a long way into the game I want potentially useful mages, not just researchers. Especially since I'm trying to get the good combinations of randoms.

I guess the strategy is to get other castles up early to recruit mages and concentrate on philosophers at home?

[noname]

Perhaps... anyway, the whole sloth thing is probably reflective of some Western European attitude towards work, one that is unseen in the United States of America, where I live. Our political philosophers generally worked hard, even if some of the earlier ones were slave owners in the late 1700's (Benjamin Franklin was a scientist, Jefferson was the founder of the University of Virginia and third president, plus the writer of much of the constitution, etc.) Anyway, as I said before, Socrates was a stone mason, so it's hard to see how the philosophers themselves could be lazy, unless you are talking about the Sophists, who charged exorbitant fees for lessons on how to manipulate others using false logic and verbal trickery.

[Meglobob]

All my best ideas come well lazing around with nothing to do and all my worst well under stress and pressure.

So does that mean I should have been a philsopher?

[Halancar]

noname said:
Perhaps... anyway, the whole sloth thing is probably reflective of some Western European attitude towards work, one that is unseen in the United States of America, where I live. Our political philosophers generally worked hard, even if some of the earlier ones were slave owners in the late 1700's (Benjamin Franklin was a scientist, Jefferson was the founder of the University of Virginia and third president, plus the writer of much of the constitution, etc.) Anyway, as I said before, Socrates was a stone mason, so it's hard to see how the philosophers themselves could be lazy, unless you are talking about the Sophists, who charged exorbitant fees for lessons on how to manipulate others using false logic and verbal trickery.

I think it must go back to that old Greece vs Rome thing. While the Greeks were busy thinking deep thoughts, pondering the secret of the universe and the meaning of beauty, the romans came along and conquered them.

An exageration perhaps, but there is no doubt that the Romans as a nation had a far more practical (and therefore productive) turn of mind that the Greeks. And conquered them. Which is just what might happen to a sloth-3 arcoscephale, particularly if it's full of philosophers but no real mages, if a production-3 ermor is next door


Now if you really want a "slothful" philosopher, go look at the stereotype of the Eastern Asia guru, living as a hermit in some mountain cave, disdaining mortal possessions and unravelling the mysteries of the univers.

[SelfishGene]

Ack you guys are overthinking things!
It even explains the logic in the nation's flavor text.

Think of EA Arco closer to Sparta/Athens combined.