Basic tech mod?

[Phoenix-D]

As far as the mod goes:

-I'd say use P&Ns propulsion system. Add in liquid-fueled drives, various types of nuclear drives, generators (like solar panels but doesn't need a star, if possible) etc. Ion and antimatter drives should be about the top-end drive units (note that we can create antimatter now, one molecule at a time). Also, I'd reduce the supplies storage given by engines. Right now they store as much as a supply storage but are half the size. Not right.

-Various types of armor. Big, cheap but less effective (by weight) but easy to fix, normal, small ablative that is tough but a PAIN to repair, etc.

-speaking of repair, need to put some careful thought into repair bays and such. I'm assuming no shields, so there's going to be a fair amount of hull damage going on.

-deflector shields. Make an armor-piercing gun- like the current Shard Cannons- but say it's made of a very magnetic material. Then make non-phased shields that are made to deflect these projectiles, by making everything ELSE do phased damage, and having the shields regen and have the same amount of shielding as the AP gun does damage.. so a lot of guns will penetrate, but each shield will stop one gun..but be useless against everything else. Measure, counter-measure..though this one is a bit high-tech.

-damage reducing components. A shield that has, say, 10 HP, and regens 10 per turn. The effect is a reduction of damage. Needn't call it a shield, though, maybe "damage control" (though the shield graphics would need removing)

-be careful with the component damaging an AP stuff..

-different types of minewarheads. Engine killers, small but cheap chemical explosives, etc.

-I'd say no tractor or repulsor beams, nor smart bombs that kill facilities. Plague bombs.. maybe. No MCs obviously.

-to add a little variety to the research tree, how about researching warheads seperately from missile types? You could have multiple types of missile, each with an option for a specific warhead (which would be a different component)

Lots of ideas, eh? I'd probably be able to help a bit, if you like. I've been working on modifying the SE tech tree anyway.

Phoenix-D

[geoschmo]

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I agree about the boring AI comment. I have little enough successful experience at modding the AI to qualify me as unqualified. Any help? I can slice out stuff like techs that aren't included, but I haven't gotten the hang of the design/construction files yet.

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Don't get hung up on this part of it. Make the mod, do the components, tech tree stuff. Get it to where we can use it for multi player first. We can go back later and tweak the ai to work within the framework.

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(like solar panels but doesn't need a star, if possible)

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Not possible without a code change.

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I'd reduce the supplies storage given by engines. Right now they store as much as a supply storage but are half the size. Not right.

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True, but this is going to severly limit the range of ships, especially in the early going. Not that this is a bad thing, if we are going for ultra-realism. Ships would have to stay very close to home unless they are in large fleets with support vessels. I might even go as far as saying reduce the amount a supply component stores, and make solar cells more expensive to research and build. Eliminate emergency resupply and quantum reactors entirely maybe?

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Various types of armor. Big, cheap but less effective (by weight) but easy to fix, normal, small ablative that is tough but a PAIN to repair, etc.

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No way currently to make components harder or easier to repair. But decreasing their size does make them take longer to repair, because repair rate is by number of components.

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speaking of repair, need to put some careful thought into repair bays and such. I'm assuming no shields, so there's going to be a fair amount of hull damage going on.

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Kind of like the engineering section in Hadrians mod and bandyed about for a Trek based mod. Not a bad idea. I think repair bays should be smaller and cheaper, but repair fewer components.

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deflector shields. Make an armor-piercing gun- like the current Shard Cannons- but say it's made of a very magnetic .........though this one is a bit high-tech.

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I'll say. This whole paragraph got away from me. Doesn't fit with the whole idea of the mod IMHO.

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damage reducing components. A shield that has.....

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Uh...see above.

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different types of minewarheads. Engine killers

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sorry, component specific mines are another good idea that can't be done currently

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, small but cheap chemical explosives, etc.

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This is a nice idea, for variety if nothing else.

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I'd say no tractor or repulsor beams, nor smart bombs that kill facilities. Plague bombs.. maybe. No MCs obviously.

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Beams, I agree. But Smart Bombs? Uh, anybody remember the Gulf War? I know Sadam does. Plauge Bombs, definetly doable. No MC's? You mean Master Computers? I'd say most definetly not obvious to me. I can see automated systems controlling ship functions. Remember, what we are going for here is not to limit ourselves to what we can do right now. (We can't even sustain a permanent occupation of the moon right now.) We are just looking to eliminate the techs that aren't feasible with today's science. Smart Bombs and Master Computers are certainly feasible. The principle is understandable, even though we don't have the technology to do it on that scale yet.

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to add a little variety to the research tree, how about researching warheads seperately from missile types? You could have multiple types of missile, each with an option for a specific warhead (which would be a different component)

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I like this. Advances in missle tech would give increases in range and speed, but not change damage. Advances in warheads would increase damage, but not speed or range. Great idea. Each new mssle component wouild simply have two research requirements. Very easy to implement.

Geoschmo


[This message has been edited by geoschmo (edited 18 July 2001).]

[Phoenix-D]

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Don't get hung up on this part of it. Make the mod, do the components, tech tree stuff. Get it to where we can use it for multi player first. We can go back later and tweak the ai to work within the framework.

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Agreed.

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(like solar panels but doesn't need a star, if possible)

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Not possible without a code change.

-You can fudge it. Make emergancy resupply components..that don't destroy themselves on use. It'd give the AI fits though.

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True, but this is going to severly limit the range of ships, especially in the early going. Not that this is a bad thing, if we are going for ultra-realism. Ships would have to stay very close to home unless they are in large fleets with support vessels. I might even go as far as saying reduce the amount a supply component stores, and make solar cells more expensive to research and build. Eliminate emergency resupply and quantum reactors entirely maybe?

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I've always thought of quantum reactors as chessy myself, and as for emergancy resupply.. why not just make it part of the normal resupply pool? Didn't make sense to me.

Various types of armor. Big, cheap but less effective (by weight) but easy to fix, normal, small ablative that is tough but a PAIN to repair, etc.

quote:

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No way currently to make components harder or easier to repair. But decreasing their size does make them take longer to repair, because repair rate is by number of components.

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Which is what I meant

quote:

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Kind of like the engineering section in Hadrians mod and bandyed about for a Trek based mod. Not a bad idea. I think repair bays should be smaller and cheaper, but repair fewer components.

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Or put in specilized repair bays, but also smaller components that do less damage. For "mobile drydocks" and the like.

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I'll say. This whole paragraph got away from me. Doesn't fit with the whole idea of the mod IMHO.

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Quite.

QUOTE] Uh...see above.[/quote] That it's too high, or it got away from you? It isn't really a shield, just uses (abuses?) the shield mechanics. (the other thing is just a magnetic field that directs rounds away from the ship, but it seems kinda cheap for this mod)

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sorry, component specific mines are another good idea that can't be done currently

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This would be because of :Weapon Type := Warhead: right? This wouldn't prevent, say, a cloaking device for mines, would it.. instead of building that into the mine chassis as currently. well, them using it might be an issue..since you can't attack while cloaked. Might just make "stealth mine" chassis then.

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Beams, I agree. But Smart Bombs? Uh, anybody remember the Gulf War? I know Sadam does. Plauge Bombs, definetly doable. No MC's? You mean Master Computers? I'd say most definetly not obvious to me. I can see automated systems controlling ship functions. Remember, what we are going for here is not to limit ourselves to what we can do right now. (We can't even sustain a permanent occupation of the moon right now.) We are just looking to eliminate the techs that aren't feasible with today's science. Smart Bombs and Master Computers are certainly feasible. The principle is understandable, even though we don't have the technology to do it on that scale yet.

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What I'd objecting to about the smart bombs is that you instantly know where the facility is, and can kill it in one shot, as I understand it. Same idea as the quantum (chesse) but less impossible.

[quote]I like this. Advances in missle tech would give increases in range and speed, but not change damage. Advances in warheads would increase damage, but not speed or range. Great idea. Each new mssle component wouild simply have two research requirements. Very easy to implement.[quote]

Yah, very simple. Requires a bit of playing with the techs, but entirely possible

If we're going to have things like fusion reactors, I'd add a short-ranged cannon that "fires" a contained fusion reaction.. which of course shortly becomes UN-contained. Give it short range and drasticly decreasing damage, along with 1 damage near the ship (firing interlock to prevent self-destruction) and high on the tech tree.

I'd say powerful lasers are in, but should loose damage at range. Possibly another split tech tree option there- you can either get more powerful, but badly focused, lasers, or opt to refine your technology for pinpoint damage.. then research the other side later to get the nasty stuff.

Also more slug throwers of course.. and I'd say slow down the speed of the "basic" weapons to 2 or three, enabling you to simulate rapid-fire, higher tech weapons easier.

I'd say planet, sun, black hole and the like devices are out, of course.. how about monilith facilites? Different name/picture for them?

Phoenix-D

[Phoenix-D]

quote:

---

Don't get hung up on this part of it. Make the mod, do the components, tech tree stuff. Get it to where we can use it for multi player first. We can go back later and tweak the ai to work within the framework.

---

Agreed.

quote:

---

(like solar panels but doesn't need a star, if possible)

---

Not possible without a code change.

-You can fudge it. Make emergancy resupply components..that don't destroy themselves on use. It'd give the AI fits though.

quote:

---

True, but this is going to severly limit the range of ships, especially in the early going. Not that this is a bad thing, if we are going for ultra-realism. Ships would have to stay very close to home unless they are in large fleets with support vessels. I might even go as far as saying reduce the amount a supply component stores, and make solar cells more expensive to research and build. Eliminate emergency resupply and quantum reactors entirely maybe?

---

I've always thought of quantum reactors as chessy myself, and as for emergancy resupply.. why not just make it part of the normal resupply pool? Didn't make sense to me.

Various types of armor. Big, cheap but less effective (by weight) but easy to fix, normal, small ablative that is tough but a PAIN to repair, etc.

quote:

---

No way currently to make components harder or easier to repair. But decreasing their size does make them take longer to repair, because repair rate is by number of components.

---

Which is what I meant

quote:

---

Kind of like the engineering section in Hadrians mod and bandyed about for a Trek based mod. Not a bad idea. I think repair bays should be smaller and cheaper, but repair fewer components.

---

Or put in specilized repair bays, but also smaller components that do less damage. For "mobile drydocks" and the like.

quote:

---

I'll say. This whole paragraph got away from me. Doesn't fit with the whole idea of the mod IMHO.

---

Quite.

QUOTE] Uh...see above.[/quote] That it's too high, or it got away from you? It isn't really a shield, just uses (abuses?) the shield mechanics. (the other thing is just a magnetic field that directs rounds away from the ship, but it seems kinda cheap for this mod)

quote:

---

sorry, component specific mines are another good idea that can't be done currently

---

This would be because of :Weapon Type := Warhead: right? This wouldn't prevent, say, a cloaking device for mines, would it.. instead of building that into the mine chassis as currently. well, them using it might be an issue..since you can't attack while cloaked. Might just make "stealth mine" chassis then.

quote:

---

Beams, I agree. But Smart Bombs? Uh, anybody remember the Gulf War? I know Sadam does. Plauge Bombs, definetly doable. No MC's? You mean Master Computers? I'd say most definetly not obvious to me. I can see automated systems controlling ship functions. Remember, what we are going for here is not to limit ourselves to what we can do right now. (We can't even sustain a permanent occupation of the moon right now.) We are just looking to eliminate the techs that aren't feasible with today's science. Smart Bombs and Master Computers are certainly feasible. The principle is understandable, even though we don't have the technology to do it on that scale yet.

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What I'd objecting to about the smart bombs is that you instantly know where the facility is, and can kill it in one shot, as I understand it. Same idea as the quantum (chesse) but less impossible.

[quote]I like this. Advances in missle tech would give increases in range and speed, but not change damage. Advances in warheads would increase damage, but not speed or range. Great idea. Each new mssle component wouild simply have two research requirements. Very easy to implement.[quote]

Yah, very simple. Requires a bit of playing with the techs, but entirely possible

If we're going to have things like fusion reactors, I'd add a short-ranged cannon that "fires" a contained fusion reaction.. which of course shortly becomes UN-contained. Give it short range and drasticly decreasing damage, along with 1 damage near the ship (firing interlock to prevent self-destruction) and high on the tech tree.

I'd say powerful lasers are in, but should loose damage at range. Possibly another split tech tree option there- you can either get more powerful, but badly focused, lasers, or opt to refine your technology for pinpoint damage.. then research the other side later to get the nasty stuff.

Also more slug throwers of course.. and I'd say slow down the speed of the "basic" weapons to 2 or three, enabling you to simulate rapid-fire, higher tech weapons easier.

I'd say planet, sun, black hole and the like devices are out, of course.. how about monilith facilites? Different name/picture for them?

Also.. self destruct? Personally I don't like it, simply because it's 100% effective. But not allowing it is going to lead to a LOT of boarding actions.. then again, as boarding parties also act as defense, that might cancel itself out. You can probably scratch the damage reduction abovem because it would prevent boarding parties from working until it was destroyed. Hmm. That's an idea all to itself, I think.

Phoenix-D



[This message has been edited by Phoenix-D (edited 18 July 2001).]

[ZeroAdunn]

Some suggestions:

How to do propulsion:
Tech area one: Thrusters: Standard rocket engines, only one standard movement point, as you get up there the engines use less fuel and maybe give bonus combat movement.
Tech are two: Drive system: Uses almost know fuell, use the extra movement gen. ala the solar sail. Different levels would provide you with different drive systems. (say maybe ion 1-3 (one bonus movement) Nuclear 1-3 (uses more fuel offers two bonus) etc...

Take fuel storage down to 10k, much more realistic.

As suggested, more armor.

As for weapons:
1: Lasers, very long range low supply cost never get weaker, but very weak.
2: Standard cannon, shorter range, higher supply cost, high damage
3: Missiles, Make missiles a lot tougher, make them only take 20 spaces and can only fire once per combat.
4: Torpedoes, like missiles, can fire more than once in combat do a lot less damage.
5: Flak cannons, to replace point defense guns

Various other components:
Lidar or radar (combat to hit bonus)
RAM armor(radar absorbing armor, cloak and defense bonus)
Repair crew: 1 comp repair per turn.

Mod troops:
Infantry, 1k requires nothing, then create a new comp, rifles.
Tanks, standard troops as they are now.

I've got a lot more ideas two, but these are my best... I think

[Krsqk]

Thanks for all the ideas! Keep them coming! Not that I'm not swamped, but things could be worse. I didn't expect this much response.

Rather than post lengthy accounts of my changes, I've uploaded a list of them here. I will update it every time I accomplish anything fairly significant and will post a notification of it. I am also keeping a list of ideas gleaned from this thread here. As I implement ideas from this list, they will be removed; so if your idea suddenly disappears, it's good, not bad. Please note that these are by no means set in stone; they are only a list for me to work from. Some very good ideas may not be compatible with the means I used to implement something else, so this list could go back and forth as techs alternate between the "drawing board" and "implemented" stages while I work out the kinks.

These files are also meant to be a means for you to keep up with the mod without having to read all of the previous Posts (i.e., P&N--not that I expect to get that many replies).

That's it for this post; more to come later.

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"The Unpronounceable" Krsqk

[Krsqk]

Please post in the new Basic Tech Mod Info thread. I seem to have enabled the "Notify by e-mail" option when I started this thread, and I had about a dozen Messages in my mailbox when I checked it. Whee. Anyway, go to the new thread so you can razz me there.

Out for now.

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"The Unpronounceable" Krsqk
Basic Tech Mod
--Current changes list
--Future ideas list

[Fyron]

bump for myself...

[jimbob]

Hey, is there stuff going on with this thread? Last post is Last year, but I've got ideas for some 'basic' tech tree stuff, esp the biosciences... any takers?

[Fyron]

Kinda... I've been working on a primitive mod.