MP: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. Game Over. Supplicants Triumph!

[Numahr]

Hello all,

I'm a newb, with no MP experience so far and only limited SP experience.

I have read a lot about Spet's games and would love to be part of the fun as a first MP experience

So since all newb positions are already filled in, I thought I could apply for as an alternate. If given a choice, I would favor the Usurpers.

Numahr

[ano]

Septimius Severus
I answered you PM's.
As for your team, please consider allowing the Risen Oracle for Agartha and\or adding some other bonuses as your team is with little doubt generally weaker than the others while the others are more or less balanced.

[ano]

The benefit of using the merc, is it enables your team to do things without taking risk/wasting gems/using your own troops/etc. For instance, you could be allied with team B but attack team B at the same time without team B knowing who ordered the attack. Why use risk your own troops against the AI or an enemy in some province when the merc can clear out the province for ya.

A problem here lies in the fact that by the mid-game mercs should generally be totally overrun by the human teams, I mean that any human nation will have much vaster (military and magical) possibilities than the mercs. This is actually inevitable and as we have a rather inexperienced merc player, it just becomes even more inevitable
To keep mercs position high, we need to somehow compensate this. The most obvious way to do that is increasing their capital pop (to 40000 or even more) and resources. As mercs are not allowed to attack humans and humans are allowed to attack mercs, this should not ruin our so-beloved balance.

[zegc-ben]

I hope to be able to keep myself at the level of a middly weak nation (or more) whitch will mean that it will still be usefull to have me on your side. In fact the mercs do'nt need to be a major power, just to have enough to offer : for example I should be able to field teleporting thugs who can be interresting as a support for any assault against an enemy team, even if I cannot be a threat on my own. I think that it may be interresting to hire mercs even in mid game for raiding and rear attack.

This being said you have much more experience than me and I will of course accept to have a richer capital.

About position I will be exactly in the center of the map but with also the 4 water povinces of the corner connected to my capital.

[ano]

I agree that mercs concept is fine and promising, just want to make it more effective. I know that Septimius worries the most about thematic aspects while I mainly worry about balance and gameplay issues. And from this perspective I think that current merc concept needs a bit more love to be effective.
To increase overall effectiveness and strength -> population and resources may be added.
To increase services effectiveness -> wide spectre of gems (namely income of 1 gem of each type) could be given

That may not be enough, just current thoughts.

Also, while merc cap is untouchable, people may eventually just capture everything instead of that cap. Merc position is no better than position of AI because concentrated attack from any of the human teams will just slay them in a few turns while, I believe, we want them to stay in the game as long as possible.

[Septimius Severus]

Originally Posted by ano

Septimius Severus
I answered you PM's.
As for your team, please consider allowing the Risen Oracle for Agartha and\or adding some other bonuses as your team is with little doubt generally weaker than the others while the others are more or less balanced.

I've sent a response PM to captains and potential captains on three issues.

The risen oracle is not in the list of pretenders for reasons many other pretenders are not in the lineup.

They've native death, meaning under the current rubric they could take unlimited death, which is against my core principle of protecting the primary paths. They are also more thematically a death pretender, can't quite see how the chill meshes well with the heat and fire theme of the team as a whole. While thematic for Agartha, they are sort of out of place team themewise.

Ehh, I would however, like to protect earth and fire as much as possible though. The Moloch, Bakemono Kunshu, lord of the summer plague namely makes that a bit hard. Two ways I can handle this:

1.Drop those pretenders (this would make me and the Children of Crom very happy as it means no fire on pretenders) but DrP and co, might need the Moloch.

2. Ano, has suggested primary, secondary and all native paths on pretenders with no maximum, but everything else at 3 or below. This prevents the Moloch and Kunshu from going above 3 in fire , and would allow the Usurper team to take both water and astral on all their available pretenders. Would also take care of the issue of the Wyrm.

[Septimius Severus]

Originally Posted by Numahr

Hello all,

I'm a newb, with no MP experience so far and only limited SP experience.

I have read a lot about Spet's games and would love to be part of the fun as a first MP experience

So since all newb positions are already filled in, I thought I could apply for as an alternate. If given a choice, I would favor the Usurpers.

Numahr

Welcome Numahr. I'll put you on in the alternate slot on the Usurpers. You may get in the game sooner if space becomes available. Feel free to join the team forums. Extra input is a goodness for the team.

[Septimius Severus]

Originally Posted by ano

I agree that mercs concept is fine and promising, just want to make it more effective. I know that Septimius worries the most about thematic aspects while I mainly worry about balance and gameplay issues. And from this perspective I think that current merc concept needs a bit more love to be effective.
To increase overall effectiveness and strength -> population and resources may be added.
To increase services effectiveness -> wide spectre of gems (namely income of 1 gem of each type) could be given

That may not be enough, just current thoughts.

Also, while merc cap is untouchable, people may eventually just capture everything instead of that cap. Merc position is no better than position of AI because concentrated attack from any of the human teams will just slay them in a few turns while, I believe, we want them to stay in the game as long as possible.

Good insight into the Merc Ano. You've been doing your homework I see.

They will have a pop bonus. That much I had decided at the onset. Because I can't fit any more sites into their cap (that would give the resources they might require (the ones that are there are dearly needed), and because their cap unlike R'leyhs can draw resources from the water provinces surrounding their cap, the resource bonus was generally ruled out. The only magic site that gives a high number of gems in a good number of paths, that I can think of is the Throne of the World, which didn't fit in with the magic location allignment. I'll do a bit more checking though.

Your are correct, the merc was not intended to hang around the whole game. They will be strong initially, but will lose strength eventually and their cap is worth a vp which is intended to be up for grabs. I'm giving them sufficient initial strength and special "top secret bonuses" Shhh, to keep them alive for some time and make sure the AI doesn't finish em. At the same time not making them undefeatable.

The cap penalty is intended to act as a deterent until their are at least two teams left. At which point the threat of allying against your team becomes a moot issue. They should outlast the AI, and their cap will be around at least till their are two teams left. If ya want em alive longer, if you find they are useful, simple solution, don't kill em off. That may be the best deterent of all.

[ano]

You've been doing your homework I see.

By no means a homework, just want the whole thing more interesting and have some time now.

The only magic site that gives a high number of gems in a good number of paths, that I can think of is the Throne of the World, which didn't fit in with the magic location allignment.

The best would be a site that gives 1 gem in each school and maybe 3 in Water (10 total which is not bad from one side and not game-breaking from another). I think that we could easily make a minor mod just altering their home site for it. This should not be a problem.

Another (and probably the last one) suggestion came up when I looked into their pretender chassis. They get Kraken (who is great but absolutely worthless here as there's nearly no water to dominate), Dagon (good pretender) and Son of The Sea (same as Dagon but much worse). So this leaves them with the only actual choice - the Dagon. That's no good.
It seems to me that we could allow that underwater Archmage (with the common restriction of 3 in non-native path) if they want it just because that would allow for much greater magic and service diversity and that's basically what are the mercs for in this game. I assure you, there will not be much demand on forging water items which are (as Chris correctly mentioned somewhere) mostly worthless but there will be great demand on the services of the only Archmage in the game. Add here the gem diversity mentioned above and we get a solid independent force though still under no way too much powerful

[Septimius Severus]

Hey, if we want to allow a single rainbow pretender into the game on behalf of the merc. I've no problem with it. If he wants it! The dagon is pretty cool, ehh, I suspect an Ancient Kraken with an amulet of the fish wouldn't be bad either.

While many water "spells" are not be that useful here (I'm guess the ones that can only be cast underwater), there are probably a decent number of water items that very useful, Frost Brands, Ice swords, can't remember em all. I hate the usurpers ability to compromise the water dominance of the merc and vice versa, but that is an exception I made. Which makes me quite upset.

Don't beleive there's an existing site that qualifies with a single gem in every path but with a good amount of water, but let me look and see what is available.

Don't want to add any more mods my friend.