[OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.

[dogscoff]

in support of rex, there is also the plagiarised "evidence" presented by the UK government Last month. I posted a link to it a few weeks ago.

[Phoenix-D]

"http://www.timesOnline.co.uk/article/0,,3-528574,00.html

How many sources do you need? The London Times is a respected paper BTW - for those of you who look at other news sources besides AM radio and Fox. Just because Rush or O'Reilly conveniently forgets to mention how the U.S. is complicit doesn't make it not true. "

This one is better, Rex. The first article didn't support your point at all- this one does.

Phoenix-D

[Thermodyne]

Rex, you quoted the article and then made a statement that the US knew all about the WMD because we still had the receipts. The article does not say that! It says that we provided real time intel and loans, along with advice. Old news my friend. It was well known that the US went out of its way to keep the Arabs and Persians at war. And that we made sure that both side had a steady supply of weapons. But we never gave them VX or anything like that. And you have implied that we did. So I would like to see you support your statement by supplying a link to these receipts. Is that too much to ask, after all, it was you who made the statement.

[primitive]

Sorry Fyron, missed the question at the bottom.

There is a time and a place for everything. It is very difficult for people like us who have very little of the facts to deceide when it is the right time to remove someone forcefully. When enough of those who actually have info support an invasion, I will support it too (I am not a peace freak if you had that impression). But at the moment it is only GBW and a few of his closest friends (of those with the facts) who support the invasion.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by rextorres:
Sorry I couldn't let this drop, but

Are you saying I'm lying or the particular news source CNN is lying? It was big news yesterday.

Ah, no Rex actually I did not see that. It's a disturbing piece of news, I'll grant you that. Not damning as it was only a small piece of coroborating evidence. Not exactly the foundation of the case against the Iraqi's. And your comment was that Powell fabricated evidence. Although that was probably a mistatement on your part. Unless you really are accusing Powell of creating these forgaries and passing them to the Brits so they could in turn pass them back to him and he could present them to the UN as evidence. Even the news article you cite doesn't make that wild accusation.

I thought you were refering to comments made by the Iraqi's at the time of the presentation that all of the evidence was false accusations by the US and Britain. This is patently not true and what I was refering too as a lie. I was not accusing you of lying or CNN. I was talking about the Iraqi's.

By the way Rex, check your email.

Geoschmo

[rextorres]

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
Rex, you quoted the article and then made a statement that the US knew all about the WMD because we still had the receipts. The article does not say that! It says that we provided real time intel and loans, along with advice. Old news my friend. It was well known that the US went out of its way to keep the Arabs and Persians at war. And that we made sure that both side had a steady supply of weapons. But we never gave them VX or anything like that. And you have implied that we did. So I would like to see you support your statement by supplying a link to these receipts. Is that too much to ask, after all, it was you who made the statement.

I did say it was a joke but a quote from the article:
"By the end of the decade, Washington had authorised the sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian applications. These included poisonous chemicals and biological viruses, among them anthrax and bubonic plague."

I am not a pacifist BTW if we were attacking North Korea I would be behind that(one of the reasons we're not though is because it's not profitable). NK is about to have the bomb and they can deliver it. Still it would only take out us liberals in California.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
Rex, you quoted the article and then made a statement that the US knew all about the WMD because we still had the receipts. The article does not say that!

Actually Thermo one of the links Rex had does say in it that we provided materials that could have medical or "other" uses. But it kinds of glosses over it and concentrates on the intelligence assistance more. Not sure what to make of that cause it seems that the nerve gas would have been mroe of a story. Perhaps they couldn't confrim that bit to their liking.

Regardless, it doesn't address the issue of how does our alleged past complicity mean we shouldn't take an active role in fixing the problem now.

Geoschmo

EDIT: Rex beat me too it. And a more detailed andswer to boot.

[ March 16, 2003, 01:04: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Thermodyne]

I read that, and the reason for the gloss is that the Anthrax documents are public. Anyone can view them. Iraq got samples of barnyard varieties of several biological agents that are harmful to humans, as did a lot of other countries where the organisms were a problem. 97 countries was the number I believe. If Iraq went to the trouble to weaponize it, then perhaps we should not have included them. But why go to the trouble of all that when their main supplier already had the best weaponized strain in the world. All they needed to do then was grow it. At the time of the Gulf war, Iraq was not in the business of designing biologic agents, they were however very much in the business of growing them.

As to the Yellow Cake document, it is sad that it happened. But then I guess we need to look at the source. Then we need to look at the buyer. I would assume that the heads are already rolling over at the Central Stupidity Agency.

[Thermodyne]

While Korea is not making the headline that Iraq is, it not as if we are doing nothing, we are just doing it quietly. This is a large escalation based on the nature of the threat.

• In February 2003 the 8th Army announced a stop movement policy which prevented soldiers from rotating out of South Korea back to the United States. This stop movement order currently impacts some 2,800 soldiers. It is not clear however whether or not the replacement for those soldiers have already arrived in the region thus making US forces presence larger then the normal 37,000 personnel.
• On February 6, the Navy ordered the USS Carl Vinson and its Battle Group to the Western Pacific where it will replace the Kitty Hawk Battle Group and be in position to respond to any events that may develop regarding North Korea. This development is listed on the US Forces Japan page.
• In late February the 2nd Battalion, 34th Armor Regiment, an element of the 1st Infantry Division arrived in Korea to participate in Foal Eagle. Fort Riley, the base that the 2-34 Armor is from indicated that between 400-500 soldiers were involved in the movement.
• On February 28 the Department of Defense ordered the deployment of 24 bombers to Andersen Air Force Base in Guam to act as a deterrent to North Korea. The deployment would consist of twelve B-52s and twelve B-1Bs. As of March 5 it was not clear which units would be sent or when they would deploy.
• By March 10, 2003 seven B-52s and ten B-1s were at Andersen Air Force Base. The aircraft belonged to the 7th Bomb Wing and the 2nd Bomb Wing.
• Elements of the 40th Infantry Division (Mechanized) were alerted to prepare to deploy to South Korea. This is not a normally scheduled deployment.
• On March 11 the Associated Press reported that at least six F-117 Nighthawks from the 49th Fighter Wing will deploy to the South Korea in support of RSOI/FE 2003. CNN on March 12 indicates that the aircraft are headed to Kunsan Air Base.
• It has recently been confirmed by GlobalSecurity.org that elements of the 3rd Wing have indeed been ordered to deploy to South Korea in support of RSOI/FE. Specific numbers or squadrons would not be disclosed. CNBC reported on March 10 that F-15s from Alaska were being deployed to South Korea or Japan.
• According to the International Herald Tribune on March 13, 2003 six F-117s departed New Mexico for Kunsan Air Base pn March 13 and will arrive in Korea on March 14.
• According to Stars & Stripes on March 13 elements of the 160th Special Operations Regiment (Airborne) are operating in South Korea. The element is E Company, and is normally based in the region.

[tesco samoa]

"If Saddam is such a threat to the survival of civilization today that the global enforcer has to resort to war, why wasn't that true a year ago? And much more dramatically, in early 1990?" Noam Chomsky

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarti...15&ItemID=2422

Question... Why are we not going after Turkey for its attacks on the kurds ??? How is this different ?

[ March 16, 2003, 03:31: Message edited by: tesco samoa ]