Babylon 5 Mod

[pathfinder]

For infantry-type weapons take a look at the infantry matter gun in data/components file. that should at least give you a method of how to set-up the weapon data to be placed in the components file. Troop (armor) weapons follow a similar pattern.

As for re-doing the MOD. Not me.

[Timstone]

PF: Thanks for the info. Stupid me, could have thought about that myself. To quote Geo: Doh!

About the remake. Why not?! Do you really think this mod is ever going to be finished?! No, I don't think so. Not as long doesn't Val returns. And even if it's going to be finished. It will need a thousand hours tweaking period. That's not the way to go. Well at least in my vision. Why not make the mod very small at first and add more races as you go along. At least finish the core, then you'll be a lot further than we're now. All we've got now are some bits and pieces.

Stupid typos.

[ January 24, 2003, 11:46: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[jimbob]

If you're going to start from scratch (I won't say "if we" start from scratch, cause I wouldn't be much help) I'd just like to suggest a few things.

1) don't have a separate tech tree for each race. There is currently a "general" tech tree for lasers (for example) and then a separate laser tech for each and every race. This redundancy is killer on both file size, etc. etc.

Proposal: Have a single tech tree, and then have all the race specific components have the requirement of the general tech + the racial trait (level 1).

2) make the mod "ready" for the eventual synthesis into the Sci Fi Cross-Over Mod (X-over). You may ask yourself "Self, why would I want to do this?" And I would say to you "because it will increase the number of people interested in playing your mod!!" Not everyone is a B5 fan - yet. But they are a SW fan, or a ST fan, etc. And maybe they'll get bit by the B5 bug when they play against the B5 universe in a cross-over game. It may be a tiny bit more work initially, but it will save a lot of work later. This would be pretty easy to do, and if there is interest, maybe this should be worked out with Andres before the project goes too far.

just my thoughts, feel free to ignore.

[grumbler]

Re: a "restart."

I think that if we decide to follow Timstone's suggestion, we should first "clean up" the existing mod. Not adding anything, just taking out those techs that don't yield anything (like Ship Enhancement Level 4, or Armor under basic sciences) and creating a stable "Version 1" mod.

Then, we can come back and look at the new mod in light of what was learned from the first go-around. Like engines. I HATE having to wade through 20+ 5 ton engines trying to figure out my reactor needs. Like the weapons techs, which as jimbob points out are hard to calculate. In fact, unless you know how to read the components files, it isn't possible to rationally decide what weapons techs to pursue. E.g., unless you can read the components file, what tells you as the Minbari to research (almost exclusively) Molecular weapons? Or as the narn, ballistic weapons? This could all be re-evaluated in the light of experience.

The overall thrust and feel of the mod are outstanding, IMO. It really is a completely different game than the original, and more "different" than any mod I have played. however, it really does require a good knowedge of the nuts and bolts of the system to play well, and I think we can do better.

I will help with this effort.

I would like to also suggest that you reconsider the idea of making this a primarily 1.49 mod, with a port to Gold. Conidering the amount of time you are spending on this, the fact the Gold continues to be patched and 1.49 won't be, and that judging by PBW there are twice the number of Gold players as 1.49 players... is the money really an obstacle? I will continue to be willing to port over the games, but think going "native Gold" makes a lot of sense.

[pathfinder]

Guess this is my post-logue or whatever. Not up to a re-write myself. No hard feelings on my part but I won't be a part of a total re-write. Not that some things aren't broken, weapons sure are, LCPU are, trading Posts are. *shrug* I been too deep in the weeds to stomach a total re-write, so I guess I am out of here.

Later...

Oh and BTW...The main thrust for Minbari may be the molecular weapons but their BEST (damage & range) weapon is the neutron laser (laser tech)!

[ January 25, 2003, 00:49: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Rambie]

Originally posted by pathfinder:
No hard feelings on my part but I won't be a part of a total re-write. Not that some things aren't broken, weapons sure are, LCPU are, trading Posts are...

Let's not get hasty, I don't think we (like I helped much) need to totally re-write the MOD. I do agree that fixing the major races -EA, Narn, Centauri, Minbari, and a few others- should be done to make a stable MOD.

The question is, what needs to be done to make the mod stable?

[pathfinder]

Trading Posts: limit one per planet (same as space yard). AI builds them like fleas.

LCPU...make it exactly like master computer...only one per ship (that IS a requirement but AI ignores that).

Above are annoyances not imbalances.

Weapons are broke/not balanced. Mostly what needs is re-write of designcreation to use MOST effective (instead of neo-"canon") weapons available. Some weapons are WAY to powerful (eg molecular slicer for shadows {matter of fact ALL shadow weapons have way too much range in comparison to other races--should ahve more but not as much). fixing the weapons MAY fix the "canon" weapon imbalance.

Not sure if any more RCE inducers are there. MOST are gone (at least the ones that have plagued the testing since I started in May).

Work needs to start on both the construction facility and construction vehicle files to get the most out of the AI's also. I been mostly fixing those RCEs and except for a trial foray into getting fighters to work, nothing has been done with these two files.

[ January 25, 2003, 12:06: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Fyron]

Restarting the mod from scratch would be a bad idea.

[grumbler]

PF: Agree in principle, but ROF should play into the calculation as well. Assuming that it takes 5 turns to get within range, a fighter IT (ROF 1/15 turns)would fire twice in a combat, while the ship Version (rof 1/2 turns) would fire 15 times. The imbalance isn't as great as it seems at first blush.

My real problem with the ship-based ion torpedo is simply that it doesn't get any of the economies of scale that large, etc mounts give to equivelent DF weapons. I think we need to look at creating component enhancements for seekers as well.

I also think that the way to increase range might be better handled using compnent enhancement (like currently done for satellites and bases) rather than just improved weapons themselves. As it is, ships like the shadow escorts can considerably outrange other races' capital ships. By considerably lowering the range of the weapons themselves, and especially light weapons, and then adding back in range using large+ component enhancements, we could restore the advantage ship size gives in the real world - not just more weapons, but bigger and longer-ranged ones.

All: When I talk about a "complete re-write" of the mod, what I am talking about is a re-thinking of the mod from the ground up, based on experience with the game. Not all that much would have to be re-written or changed - mostly just the components and vehicle-size files.

For instance, do we really want to cripple the speed of the larger ships in order to have a few "x50" ton ships? Doersn't it make more sense, now that we have played the game, to make the engine per move divisor 100 rather than 50? Planet killers should be slow, sure, but a max speed of 5 (9 with all possible bonuses)? Why, using newtonian physics as our model, are we deliberately letting the 253 limit, rather than space avaiable for engines, drive the max speeds?

Anyway, those are the kinds of things I am talking about when I say re-write (and probably mean re-examine). If no one is really very interested in this, then I can live with the decisions made to date (after all, I can just mod things to suit myself and leave the "official Version" as per the consensus).

Seeing all the work that was done before I came on the scene, and having read all 160+ pages of this thread, I know that lots of this has been hashed out in some form or another. I just think that experience may give folks a different view when re-examining decisions made in the past.

[Fyron]

Comp enhancements for Seekers can only affect size, cost, supplies, and range fired at (but not actual range). They can not affect damage at all.