MBT's

[-Luc-]

Hi,

Here's something special:

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.ph...d=74&Itemid=30

Thank you!
-Luc-

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Been tracking this for a short time, but felt I didn't have enough data to submit them. Good info I didn't have and the source is pretty good about covering African military issues which I've used a couple of times my self. If you don't mind I'll add it to my "collection" or I'll trade you for it with the following.
1. U.S. armor is back in Europe, I knew they'd miss us a little bit anyway. It'll represent a prepositioned combined arms Battalion sized unit. It's all about the "Bear" I'm sure.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/febru...v_0202143.html

Regards,
Pat

[scorpio_rocks]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

1. U.S. armor is back in Europe, I knew they'd miss us a little bit anyway. It'll represent a prepositioned combined arms Battalion sized unit. It's all about the "Bear" I'm sure.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/febru...v_0202143.html

hehe - is it just me or does the Abrams look "wrong" in that camo scheme? Just so used to seeing it in desert tan, I guess.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

As has been my normal practice; all my submissions (2013/2014 Campaign) are brought back to their "home" thread. Everything here has been acted upon and verified pretty much as submitted. As always I thank Don for his time and patience with me in this area. Soon to start a long campaign with the "fixed" and improved STRV-122 MBT's vs. Russia with the newly added T-72B3 (If the AI picks it.) This is important to me to thank all of you for respecting the intent of the Patch Thread as it was important to my focus...again THANK YOU!! The items in the "..." starting with C1. below were reminders for what was submitted in the 2013/2014 Campaign from last year. I will assume that this format was acceptable and hopefully time saving to some degree.

MBT’s…
C1. TANZANIA/CHANGE/UNIT 023/TYPE 59G/START DATE TO OCT 2012 VICE JAN 2005//
“A2. TANZANIA/ADD/OCT 2012/TYPE 59G/MG Chinese 125mm SB w/Rds UKN/12.7mm and 7.62mm w/Rds UKN// “ Is EW an issue here as well with this type system as follows?
“The turret appears to be the same one that’s on the new Chinese TYPE 96G. Based on that it would appear then also it is carrying the same EW system as the TYPE 96 which is similar to the Russian Shtora-1.”
Also I have some info to support submitting a new TYPE 96A to the Chinese OOB, hopefully below and as was mentioned previously. “Note: It would appear this improved version of the Chinese TYPE 96 is not in the OOB as shown in Ref. 6 below. See UNIT 026 (My update…Chinese OOB). The refs refer to “the new TYPE 96.”
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rica&Itemid=55
http://www.armyrecognition.com/decem...9g_271211.html
http://www.sinodefence.com/army/tank/type59.asp
http://www.armyrecognition.com/china..._pictures.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/china...igence_uk.html

C2. SWEDEN/CHANGE/UNITS 31, 356 & 358/STRV-122/HEAT TOP TO 20 VICE 16/UNITS 31, 353, 356 & 358/STRV 122 & STRV 122B/STEEL 12 VICE 8//
“C2. SWEDEN/CHANGE/STRV-122/UNITS 31, 356 & 358/Change to STRV-122A/Modify per A3 above/Refs per A3 above. //
Most of the STRV-122 units are to be upgraded by the end of this year.” Haven’t seen anything on this last however, I really haven’t had a chance to thus far to follow up on the STRV-122. Also for context on C2;
“A3. SWEDEN/ADD/OCT 2004/STRV 122B/Use UNIT 358 and modify per below as needed//
The big issue here is protection over the base German Leopard tanks that the STRV-122A and STRV-122B design modifications are derived from. First a breakdown of the STRV Series. The STRV-121 is a Leopard 2A4 as used by Germany at the time of purchase by Sweden in 1994 and 1995 they are both interchangeable.”
“The STRV-122A is a “German” Leopard 2A5 but that’s where the comparison ends. The major area in armor improvement was in the top protectionfor instance the turret hatches are just over 20cm in thickness. After extensive testing the Swedes decided on a geared system for opening them at even severe angles.” Here’s what we know first from the STRIX posts, that the Swedes did extensive testing on the T-72 tanks they had and we posted videos showing some of that. It would’ve been a bad day for Russian T-72 crews but the lessons learned from that were built into the STRV-122A tanks while being built in Germany. That was a good day for Swedish crews. Again 20cm/200mm is almost 2ft thick which also means the surrounding steel is thicker as the hatch is recessed. I strongly feel that this is one of the most protected tanks out there in regards to where the top of the turret is concerned and the turret in general. All I have to offer based on the numbers and from personal experience in my submarine career dealing with our hatches in not letting water into “the people tank” at several hundreds of pounds per sq. inch and that I have not in any research for any tank seen information pointing out the thickness of and operation of the top hatch, I feel the STEEL issue might warrant further consideration. The STRV-122B was not modified with additional top protection but is correct for what should’ve been the HEAT TOP number for the STRV-122 series of tanks in general all along.
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/leo2.htm
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product2019.html

C3. SWEDEN/CHANGE/UNITS 31, 353, 356 & 358/STRV-122 & STRV-122B/ADD/GALIX Self Defense System with 6 HE FRAG 80mm grenades/As discussed in the Patch Thread on Posts 143-149//
The STRV Series of tanks have 16 launchers, 8 to a side in a 6/2 configuration. As noted below I still have no evidence of any other country user that has weaponized their launchers.
From Post 143 “Can the use of the dual purpose grenade launchers on the Swedish STRV-122/122B be activated in the last available weapons slot to fire off (In real life by the tank commander manually.) either buckshot/flechette, HE-blast or fragmentation grenades? This is a unique feature of the Gallix System dual purpose launchers installed on these tanks (And others.) which can be loaded internally.” and “As far as I can find out Sweden is the only country using those type of 80mm grenades of the ten or so that are available for use with these launchers.”
What to do about the other country users will require more work. Weapons slots might prevent it in a couple as was the case with the MERKAVA and M-60T in regards to the 60mm Mortars we know they have. I will pursue this if Andy and you want me to but it’ll have to be for next year on my end.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product719.html
http://www.nexter-group.com/en/produ...ponent&print=1

C4. SWEDEN/CHANGE/UNIT 358/STRV 122/END DATE TO JAN 2020 VICE DEC 2010//
C5. SWEDEN/CHANGE/UNIT 359/STRV 121/END DATE TO DEC 2010 VICE JAN 2020//
As noted in my last update post, this is why I proof read my work when possible, to catch what I almost missed in the two entries above.

New Items:

A1. RUSSIA/ADD/OCT 2013/T-72B3/125mm SB 2A46M-5/TI GSR 40-45/ARENA E APS/RELIKT ERA//
The following is taken from the last ref. below Post #749…
“Yeah its weird, other stupid thing is the non-automatic sight cover.
Good summary of T-72B3 upgrade: -overhaul of T-72B or B1
-new autoloader(for "Svinets" APFSDS) -new 125mm 2A46M5 gun
-new FCS, and new gunner main sight "Sosna-U"(same sight on T-90MS) 1A40 used as a backup
-new radiostation R-168-25U-2 -commander sight TKN-3MK with "duplication" mode

T-72B4 as we know will add the commanders panoramic sight (same as T-90MS) as well as battle management systems.”

Pretty much falls in line with what I can find out about these tanks. The FCS is very much in line with existing T-90S models I would think with improvement of T-90MS components as noted above. Also of interest is the “Svinets” APFSDS round, seeing reports that testing has recently been completed and MOD is ready to field this round now. Don’t know status of this round however, I believe you might have better access in ammo sources then me generally. It should be pointed out that ARENA E is not effective against tank rounds but is supposed to be effective against Arty AP rounds besides RPGs and ATGM. Also this version of the T-72 is protected with RELIKT ERA which is claimed to be twice as effective as the last version of KONTAKT ERA designated KONTAKT-5 which still is in use. As a side note Russia has already developed it’s next gen ERA called KAKTUS which I believe will be used on the ARMATA MBT.
http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20131...ded-Tanks.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/octob...k_1510132.html
http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20130...-Ministry.html
http://defense-update.com/20131106_t...eployment.html
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/busine...ar/491336.html
http://www.russianarmor.info/Tanks/ARM/2a46.html
http://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=779&p=2
http://www.russiadefence.net/t1868p7...ces-photosnews
http://defense-update.com/products/a/arena-e.htm
Pic:

FINLAND/ADD/JUN 2015/LEOPARD 2A6FIN/USE NETHERLANDS UNIT 037//
The contract was approved on 19 JAN, I’m using the “SWAG” on the date and it should be close with deliveries starting in 2015. So after about 2 yrs. the Dutch LEOPARD 2NLA6 tanks finally have a home. As in Asia concerning China’s military build up, some countries in Europe are taking a look at their militaries as well due to the increases seen in Russia’s own increased defense spending. Finland not only bought the last of the active Dutch tanks at the time of retirement tanks (75) but, also cut into the last of their stockpiled ones (25) as well. No indications of any modifications that I can find or is hinted at. That’s what made these and the next two items so attractive to the buyer here and below, these tanks are fully modernized, well maintained and cheaper than modernizing existing stock or buying new as the refs discuss.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...rlands-4161095
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rope&Itemid=57
http://www.janes.com/article/31818/f...opard-2a6-mbts
http://www.armyrecognition.com/decem...k_2012134.html
http://dalje.com/en-economy/finland-...h-tanks/495328
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...inland-020936/
http://defense-update.com/20140119_f..._leopards.html
http://www.janes.com/article/32619/f...om-netherlands

A3. POLAND/ADD/APR 2014/LEOPARD 2A5/USE GERMAN UNITS 272 & 273/ORDERED 105/NOTE: THOUGH POSSIBLE I ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION IN NOT CHOOSING UNITS 274 & 275. YOUR CALL HERE//
A4. POLAND/ADD/APR 2014/LEOPARD 2A4/USE GERMAN UNITS 268 & 269/ORDERED 14//
Pretty much for the same reasons above for Finland, Poland is also pushing hard to modernize its military. Again some “SWAG” but this deal is sealed as well. Contracts were signed in mid 2013 with deliveries to start in 2014 and be completed by 2015. Also this should to some degree answer the question about what Poland was going to do platform wise and this could end or at a minimum delay them in seeking a “Medium” tank solution as has been discussed.
The issue here in choosing the German tanks I did was based on the information from the refs themselves that indicated that the Polish MOD would NOT have to do any modernization on these tanks. I also took into account the LEOPARD 2A4 tanks ordered would be of a later mark then Poland ordered from Germany and received in 2000. I did not include the 18 Bergepanzer 2 armored recovery vehicles (ARVs) that are part of this contract as I don’t believe they serve a game purpose.

C4. POLAND/CHANGE/UNIT 020/START DATE TO JUN 2000 VICE OCT 2002//
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rope&Itemid=57
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rope&Itemid=57
http://www.janes.com/article/29260/p...s-from-germany
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rope&Itemid=57
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...-tanks-germany
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-tanks-019466/
http://www.defenceiq.com/amoured-veh...rmany-further/

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well I stated there were concerns from Finland and Poland about Russian future "Sabre Rattling" based on it's ongoing military expansion well, the future has arrived as it seems they are flexing their muscles beyond Ukraine now. The now is in Scandinavia. As I noted concerning Finland buying the Dutch LEOPARD's and Poland buying the same from Germany it would seem their purchases were justified. Just a little food for thought with the following...
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukr...oorstep-n67866

Regards.
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Didn't feel this was truly an "After Action Report" as much as an update...The Swedish STRV-122A performs well with the GALIX System as I watched it being used in action against attacking Russian troops. As I hoped the AI did go with the T-72B3 right off in the first battle (And only thus far w/24 to go.) for all it's tanks. It looks good and performs well as expected-thank you!! Still looking into the GALIX weaponized status for France, Italy and the couple of other users of the system still with no luck.
Well this was something new I came across on one of my "first look" references when I reloaded it. I like these guys for the reason I'm posting the below; they get ahead of the "big boys" at times. This is on my list and reminds me of another tank also below. You'll note the lines are very similar.
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/...light_tank.htm
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/jaguar.htm

Regards,
Pat

[dmnt]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Well I stated there were concerns from Finland and Poland about Russian future "Sabre Rattling" based on it's ongoing military expansion well, the future has arrived as it seems they are flexing their muscles beyond Ukraine now. The now is in Scandinavia. As I noted concerning Finland buying the Dutch LEOPARD's and Poland buying the same from Germany it would seem their purchases were justified. Just a little food for thought with the following...
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukr...oorstep-n67866

For the NBC news source Finnbay, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnbay

Slightly off-topic (it gets better in next paragraph), but I had the urge to elaborate. Finland's purchase was decided earlier, negotiations had started already last year and is covered by the basic budget of the FDF. It is true that the change of modus operandi in Russia has been noted but so far it's all in political speech and discussion about the benefits of joining NATO and the drawbacks of it. One comedian said on TV in a humor program that "We could join NATO so we'd have someone to protect us when Russia attacks Finland because we joined NATO." However the ATACMS purchase cancel has two possible roots, the cost savings imposed by the government and easing of Russian perceived threat from getting both Leos and ATACMS rockets at the same time.

I covered this MBT issue in another post: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showp...35&postcount=4

Finns had a choice between modernizing the current tanks, buying brand new from Germany or getting them used at Honest Dutchman's Used Cars and Tanks. Last one was considered to be most cost effective.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I have read your post and found it interesting and even checked your other one you linked to your last from the 8th of this month as well. So what more can I say then thank you for backing me up on my information submitted in "The FASTBOAT Patch Page" (TFPP) Thread Post #172 and please note the date; Look under "New Items" and for this topic the "A2" submission and please read it carefully. Also it was re-posted in this it's "home" thread above in #274. The easy part is saying "I think I'll submit this piece of equipment..." for any reason you choose to end that sentence with. The hard part is in researching the hard data and do all the checks and balances to try to submit and present that piece of equipment to Don and ultimately everyone else out here in a manner to advocate for it, highlight the main points, present the references and finally write it up to an international audience where even in the English speaking nations how an idea is presented by the use of a term can have a different meaning. Perfect example there was an item about armor penetration a short time ago that an APC was protected up to 14.7mm rounds in the U.S. that would generally mean to include the 14.7mm round; elsewhere it seems that means it would not include that round. So we either have a communication issue or one of reaction vs research before reaction to a topic. But it's all good, we both contribute and help like many others out here but please understand that I actually do read my references so I can take those steps outlined above because I know Don and others out here will read them as well. Look at the TFPP Thread especially the earlier posts and you'll see what I'm talking about. Do I get it right all the time? No, Indonesia's LEOPARD deal I tracked that for over two years, everybody including JANE's was reporting they would get the 2A6 even after the Dutch deal fell through. Before the German deal was reported it was still 2A6 tanks, then maybe 2A4 from an undisclosed European country but still 2A6 tanks maybe from Germany you see the pattern here? Well LEOPARDS was right, Germany would be right but the 2A6 WOULD BE WRONG. Even as they were being shipped it was still being reported that the 2A6 was on the way. So guess what LEOPARD is on my list for Indonesia when I get the green light to submit equipment again? Yeah the 2A4 improved and modified Indonesian tank.
A long way around to make a point I know but who wasted their time more to make a point? I don't know and quite frankly I don't care.

Well I should post a tank issue here so, here's one I've been dealing with for years also; DRDO in India is ready to have the ARJUN MKII fielded in 2016 if the Army might want the tank before the LAHAT issue is resolved. DRDO is working very closly with ELBIT of Israel to get the techincal issues resolved. The last discusses some more detailed aspects of the tank we haven't I believe looked at yet for the game as currently entered.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/29514617.cms
http://www.millenniumpost.in/NewsContent.aspx?NID=54792
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march...6_2303144.html
http://jewishvoiceny.com/index.php?o...nse&Itemid=282

Good Night!

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well I feel comfortable with this site to post this. I've been tracking this story for a long time now, but it appears Germany might be backing away from one of the largest tank deals in many years. I do know for certain the deal was on the verge of being of completion with the contracts to have been finalized by this summer also as reported in this thread the tanks in question were to be the LEOPARD 2A7+. Originally S.A. was going to purchase an advanced version of the 2A6 w/modifications numbering I believe around 500 tanks. All that changed with the development of the 2A7+ and of course this would've guaranteed that S.A. would've enjoyed armor superiority in the region for many years.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...asia&Itemid=56
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...arabia-4214642

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well equipment is what I do here so...
So what's hitting the news right now is a previously unidentified Israeli tank that is on my work list along with the M113 SPIKE NLOS platform the TAMUZ. This was going to be part of an "update" on what I'm working for this thread but, I couldn't wait.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/weapo...s_2107143.html


Note NLOS antenna
near side aft end of
the turret.


As noted in header.


SPIKE NLOS launcher
up. Holds 12 missiles.


TAMUZ

Regards,
Pat