The FASTBOAT Patch page.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I've "mulled" this over for sometime and have hinted about the necessity of a "Plan B" in this thread and in passing in probably in the MBT Thread as well, that being said, I will not press myself to meet a deadline I now know I can't deliver on.

My main objective German OOB) is still being worked, though slowly but, it progresses none the less.

I'm not going into details or providing excuses, it'll be Plan B and that's that.

I know Don (Andy) has other concerns he can deal with at this moment in time over the next couple of weeks before they go into "final production" of the Patch over the next few weeks.

My apologies to all.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
I came across the ref below while reading "my papers" and found the topic interesting of the ARIETE firing a drone from its MG.

But "silly me" just kept on reading the @!&***+=! article.

The wash out is MODIFYING 2 UNITS and DELETING 2 UNITS.

Please don't do anything, I've already started the submissions to include my refs.

I'm just tired, I never sleep well when "someone" is away and you know what's up.

So here's the offending ref along with the following from the real (Accept no substitutions.) Italian Army.

I'm silly typing time to finish...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...m_its_gun.html
http://www.esercito.difesa.it/equipa...ne/ariete.aspx

Later today is a "wash" as you know, though I might manage to get it closer to finished.

Let me know if you want this and your "drop dead date" via alternate OPSEC PM.

It can also wait to be part of the PLAN B packages if you don't want to deal with this.

I'm looking to keep and modifying UNITS 024 & 025 based on the references I have, as they represent the "best match" for the data.

This is another case of a weapons Program Getting Cancelled.

Don't read; it's bad for your health and makes you start crazy things!?!

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

I will be starting the final assembly of the upgrades by the end of the week then the final testing starts and to be quite frank I have little interest in last minute rushed changes to the OOB's. That's what turns into an "oops" a month later so if you have something on Italian units 24 and 25 make it quick and above all make it clear and simple. I do not want to wade through multiple links to dig out info. All I got from those two links was there is no C2 but C2s are 24 and 26 so I don't see how that affects 24 and 25. What is seems is there are Ariete upgrades to the basic model

And on top of that we have "C3's in 620 and 621 and "C4s" in 625 and 626 with a 122 L55 gun upgrade no doubt because someone gave us " good intel" that they were going into service and we couldn't find any evidence at the time they weren't

The bottom line is you have three days tops to get me the info and yes, I understand what all is going on at your end. Forget about the Leo issues that is done and dusted for this year. After any adjustment to the Ariete I have to check if any were used in scenarios and all of that eats up hours. The good news for me there is there are few scenarios in MBT that involve Italy and it appears none of them use the Ariete.

One final note. I see that these were set up with + versions using added armour and "plain" versions without it. At the time that *May* have been perfectly accurate in the mind of the guy who originally built the OOB but this is a GAME and in a game nobody goes into "combat" with a tank without the add on armour so my first instinct is to rip out everything without the add on package AFTER the initial release model. Oto Melara developed two different sets with different thickness-levels that can be adjusted to the nature of the mission but ALL we are interested in is the max armour protection that can be applied and those packages were first used in 2003. Assume for certain the "C4" in slot 625 and 626 with the L55 are now gone and it seems clear there is no need for a "C?" designation..... there are just Arietes.

FURTHER EDIT

Pat..... I'm going to save you ( and me ) stress neither of us needs ATM.

I have reviewed what we have and info I have dug up on line and have condensed the Ariete line to four versions with progressive upgrades and next year when hopefully things are more or less normal you can tell me if its close enough or not. I do know that it's closer than we had. All models after 2000 have the added armour package which was designed around that time and in-service date is now a more correct 1995

On top of that I just discovered the "GALIX" is just another version of what we call VRRS and are only combat smoke and acoustic flash-bangs for crowd control. They are not an active "HE kill" weapon

Lacroix , in collaboration with Nexter, developed Galix: a passive countermeasures system for land forces. The Galix System hides fighting vehicles from an approaching threat and protects the vehicles, main battle tanks and APCs.

https://www.defence24.com/galix-mult...land-platforms
https://www.lacroix-defense.com/prod...and&code=galix

.... so is superflous on any vehicle with VRRS and has now been removed and the damned thing is in five OOB's

( I had a MUCH different day planned...........)

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

My main objective German OOB) is still being worked, though slowly but, it progresses none the less.

Ohhhhh ...
You're in for so many "fun" times!

If I may make a suggestion (or four).
#1 - Weapon changes/additions/deletions
#2 - Unit changes/additions/deletions
#3 - Only now worry about formations
#4 - Always keep in mind changes to FORMATION dates require alterations to the piclists. So even if you need introduce/delete formations a couple years earlier/later then they historically exist try to "group" formation introduction/deletion around set dates that will be used when piclists are modified.

[DRG]

I don't think he's contemplating a "USMC" type redo......at least I hope not. Once was enough

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Where to start...

1. Don my apologies, my first instinct was just not to post anything concerning the ARIETE, I REALLY didn't want you to touch it. I'll take responsibility for that. I had already stated I knew things were getting close, I just misjudged the timing. In the future, I think it best if I see an issue to proceed and do the the work in a "quiet" manner.

2. Suhiir, are you kidding me!?! When I read that post, I don't know but I'll be nice and just say "BOY WAS I UNHAPPY"!!! In all the years I've been submitting my submissions out here, if you or anyone else think for one second, that I don't fully take into account the amount of work required by Don, once he excepts (And if you took the time to bounce my submissions against the affected OOB's you might be surprised at what you find.) my info I FULLY UNDERSTAND Don will have to every aspect of said equipment, wherever it exists within the game. And because I'm not smart enough to realize this, I guess that would include a simple "Date Change" as well!?!

Should've read into Don's Post after my last, you might never have posted your last. Bad timing on your part!!

3. Don and Suhiir, LEOPARDS and BOXERS, as Don knows and I have a long record of doing so, concerning equipment where for instance there is conflicting data, I've reached out to MOD mostly and at rare times to other sources that have direct access and sources within X countries military, most recently and as posted Ralph Zwelling who certainly does have that access within the BUNDESWEHR. The rest you know about my refs though to tackle the afore mentioned, I've found no less then 4 new references all from Germany with no translation required (Don likes that sort of thing!).

So think of all the "FUN" Don and I had with ABRAMS (Last year or year before.) except and again as already posted I'm starting from the LEOPARD 2A4 and up. On cursory examination the earlier LEOPARDS I believe are fine.

I've come across Date/Armor/Survivability and FCS issues. The email exchanges are very telling in the direction I knew already I had go in, based on the questions I asked Ralph and from my German based sources.

Don got ahead of me on this based on my posts and has made some changes and added a couple of new tanks, it just made my job easier but as I know Don does with my submissions and as I started the work with additional notes, well we've always managed a compromise at minimum and I would expect no less later on.

Concerning BOXER's you can expect at least 6 new build versions. The others will see modifications some as noted above with addition of weapons as one doesn't exist within the BUNDESWEHR as currently armed which will be modified with the correct weapon.

Not as many tanks involved as there was with the ABRAMS where as Don is well aware, I went through +$%^&* tank in the OOB. Half at least were "game legacy" issues from the previous owners.

I want to make abundantly clear to everyone, every major "redo" isn't because I'm sitting here on my AXX, with nothing better to do. They've occurred mostly from reading my "papers" like what just happened with the ARIETE if you read that article as posted. Sometimes I'll hear from a player or see something posted.

I make no apologies for my methods my attention to detail is fine tuned from my military career. I can't let my guard down as a "civilian" due to the nature of my job. I WILL COME HOME AT THE END OF MY WORKDAY. Things have over the years already at our bases as matter of public record. And I don't subscribe to "It can never happen here" because NEVER can happen anytime on any given day.

I'm really a tired nice guy but, play is play and work is work.

And this is work, which for the most part I enjoy.

Priorities Family/Health/Retirement Goals/Work and the rest, as they say "I just let the chips fall where they may."

Now it's off to bed, company leaving in the morning, And back to work this afternoon.

Suhiir you're still my MARINE Buddy but REALLY!?!

Now I'm done!!

Regards,
Pat

[Suhiir]

Actually if my post dissuaded you, or anyone else, from considering (even in the back of your/their mind) such a redo of an OOB I call it a success!

And I don't, nor should anyone, expect Don to put in the amount of effort needed for such a redo. It's far more work then most begin to realize. I've "owned" the USMC OOB since it was rebuilt, blame any and all problems solely on me.

Changes to weapons (that don't require the addition/deletion of a unit class) and units themselves (that again don't alter the the availability dates of an entire unit class) are fairly easy (if sometimes time consuming when it comes to updating WinSPMBTs several hundred scenarios). YOU know this Fastboat, and I know you do. My post was pointed at you but directed to the community at large. Consider yourself caught in the crossfire.

Friendly fire isn't!

[DRG]

The change to the Ariete gets rid of a number of speculative versions and it gets an icon upgrade


The old turret was about 18 inches ( RL ) too short. 10 years ago I didn't have a good top view to scale from

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Very well done! What I also like is how you "captured" that unusual leading edge on the frontal arc with that "design" on it.

Pictures from Military-Today site for illustration purposes...


Much improved over current one. Thanks!

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I wish to confirm the following "work" issue...
X-Country has both an APC/IFV and MBT with a SURVIVABILTY of 5.

So X-Country will be deploying said equipment above to an IED/Mine environment and decided to add Steel Armor (Plates etc.) to the "bellies" of those units deploying.

Using "KISS", is it safe to assume, that the SURVIVABILTY would increased to 6?

That's my thinking anyway. Just wanting to establish some "groundwork" is all.

Regards,
Pat