Undead retreated?

[ywl]

Originally posted by Argitoth:
I've decided to go for lvl 9 conjuration. Nations are helping me survive on every part of the map. I don't think I'll be vanquished from the game just yet.

I think it's better to go for Thaumaturgy 6, from which you get "Whither Bones", an undead killer. It's long shot but it's better to go for Conjuration 9, which requires even more research points.

You pretender has 8 death, he could keep casting "Summon Ghost". It'll be 9 gems for 8 ghosts for him. Life drain should be magical weapon and so reasonably good versus the undeads. If you had 10 turns, that would be 80. Quite a formiddable army. They're probably still not enough to turn the tide but it's the best you can spend your time and resource on right now. Keep assasinating his commanders might help... SG's commanders is quite expensive.

But it's, at best, a hopeless struggle. Good luck.

[Argitoth]

Originally posted by ywl:
But it's, at best, a hopeless struggle.

I strongly disagree, hence I am trying my best. Is life drain a ranged attack? Are ghosts all that strong against lots of undead? I'm just summoning a bunch of bane lords. I guess I'll use 9 gems for ghost summoning and use the rest for bane lords. Those bane lords are very strong.

[Tricon]

Maybe you should add some pale riders into the mix. Their Good fodder and fairly decent fighters.
Your pretender should get 20+15 a pop. 35 ldhorsemn a round are not too shabby (and in my experience better then a single bane lord.)

But I have no real experience against soulgate ermor....

Good luck anyway.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Argitoth:

quote:

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Originally posted by ywl:
But it's, at best, a hopeless struggle.

I strongly disagree, hence I am trying my best. Is life drain a ranged attack?

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Touch attack. Same as the Vampire Queen.

Are ghosts all that strong against lots of undead?

Given the hitpoints of SGs troops, I would expect each ghost to kill a unit per round of close combat except when facing apparitions or other ghosts, which typically make up a very small part of the ethereal armies.

Note that I have not tested this. It is based on the conjecture that the Ghosts life drain attack counts as a magic weapon and thus bypasses ethereality.

I'm just summoning a bunch of bane lords. I guess I'll use 9 gems for ghost summoning and use the rest for bane lords. Those bane lords are very strong. [/QB]

If your good friends (hint! hint!) send you charcoal shields and rings of reinvigoration as gifts, this may be the wiser choice. The 7hp fire damage is enough to kill most of SGs troops and if you rely on bane lords, you are going to get mobbed - and mobbed by troops that can paralyse and steal strength (though I do not know whether the latter affects undead - it probably does).

The easiest way to kill hordes of SG troops in melee is to make them commit suicide.

[Taqwus]

Life drain attacks inherent to monsters -- ghosts, vampires, horrors, et al -- are generally melee-only. The life drain spell, on the other hand, has some range. Wielded against undead, neither provides the usual healing and reinvigoration side effect.
Ghosts are not terrifically strong against undead, particularly undead with magical attack forms since the magical weapons ignore etherealness. I'd probably prefer undead archers, for their ability to hit the undead masses before meleeing, and since banefire arrows are conveniently magical; it might be possible to do fire-and-run attacks with them.

[Argitoth]

To do that I'd have to divert my already-low-research to enchanment. My hope is to get Army of the Dead, lol. That will truely be harsh.

[ March 26, 2004, 19:19: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

[Argitoth]

Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen:
The easiest way to kill hordes of SG troops in melee is to make them commit suicide.

You might be on to something... but what do you mean by this?

Also, I will have at least 7 bane lords and some ghosts before I am in danger of the undead storming my castle, and right now Ermor is having a really hard time getting an army to my castle. (he's too scared to send his VQ to collect his undead in enemy dominion it seems). don't forget i have many mages who will be able to cast dust to dust and solar rays (destroying a single area of undead, not just one target). It might not be much, but added all together I bet I have a good chance of holding my ground for a few battles.

[ March 26, 2004, 19:27: Message edited by: Argitoth ]

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Argitoth:

quote:

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Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen:
The easiest way to kill hordes of SG troops in melee is to make them commit suicide.

You might be on to something... but what do you mean by this?

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Just another reference to the fire shield/regeneration combination. The great weaknesses of SG undead (with the exception of the wailing lady and the leaders, obviously) is that they 1) don't do all that much damage per attack and 2) have few hitpoints. Their strengths are 1) their small size which allows them to mob units, 2) their unconventional attacks which can nullify their opponents physical attacks, and 3) their ethereality which makes them hard to hit.

The fire shield/regeneration combination takes advantage of their weaknesses and nullifies most of their strengths.

It would work even better with a naturally regeneration monster like a troll lord.

[ March 26, 2004, 19:37: Message edited by: Peter Ebbesen ]

[Tuna-Fish]

Originally posted by Argitoth:
You might be on to something... but what do you mean by this?

I think he mean use charcoal shileds that give a fireshield, so the undead will hit your troops and die to the fireshield.

Note that long weapons with magic effect can go just the same thing when wielded by unit that has a lot more attack skill that the attackers.

Flambeau is lenght 3, lighning spear is lenght 4.

[Argitoth]

Bane blade is length 3 and the lords have 14 attack.

CHARCOAL SHIELD
5 Earth, 5 Fire

-5 Protection
-2 Defence
-Fire Shield

[ March 26, 2004, 19:50: Message edited by: Argitoth ]