Modder brainstorming session - Page 3

geoschmo · #21 May 17th, 2001, 03:19 PM

Nitpick alert...Nitpick alert...

quote:
Originally posted by Puke:
Just like when we thought the U2 and later the SR71 were too high and fast to catch, but they got their clocks cleaned by super-sonic short-range mig interceptors!

Sorry Puke, the SR71 has never been caught by anything, and the U-2 wasn't cought by another aircraft. Gary Powers was shot down when the Soviet Air Defense sent up a BUNCH of surface to air missles. One managed to get close enough that when it exlploded it damaged his plane. (Of course the shotgun approach also knocked out at least one of the MIGS persuing him as well.)

Doesn't affect the point you were making. I just felt like being picky.

Geo

dogscoff · #22 May 17th, 2001, 04:21 PM

>I think the AI would have a >tough time handling it though.

That's what I thought. Economically it wouldn't be much different to the Neutrals, and the slower pace might help to hide some of the AI's research and design eccentricities. I think the main difficulty would be persuading it to defend its colonies adequately.

>This is as close as you can get to the few >and far between colonizable planets now.
...
>If the number of systems limit is lifted I >don't see why most of your ideas cannot be >used.

Number of systems limit? OIC... well I think 255 systems might be enough. After all, if you had (say) 10 players and a few neutrals/ primitives, that's still >25 systems each. Maybe you could have a few colonisable worlds every 4th or 5th system... that would be about a dozen worlds per empire before they had to start squabbling=-)

The map could be implemented by adjusting the systmtypes.txt file couldn't it? If not, maybe the map editor...

------------------
"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but balancing a family and a career ... oooh, it's all too much for me. "

Nitram Draw · #23 May 17th, 2001, 05:02 PM

I was thinking if the system limit was increased you could really get that "are we alone" feeling. Even with 255 systems I generally run into someone within 30-60 turns. What if you went 100's of turns before finding another race?

capnq · #24 May 17th, 2001, 05:03 PM

Like a lot of people, I dislike the way Phased Shields I are so much less effective than normal Shields V. Most of the ideas I've seen to fix this seem to involve rearranging the progression to make them alternate, e.g. normal I, phased I, normal II, phased II, but I don't like that, either. It seems to me that phased should be a major breakthrough that make normal shields obsolete.

I haven't tested this idea yet, but I think a better fix would be to make phased I equivalent to normal V, then increase from there. This has the advantage that you don't have to rewrite the AI research files for a new progression.

My current idea for the progression would be something like this:

Level shield pts. minerals radioactives
normal V 300 500 0 (no change)
phased I 300 450 50
phased II 375 500 100
phased III 450 550 150
phased IV 525 600 200
phased V 600 650 250

Do these numbers look reasonable?

------------------
Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft

Suicide Junkie · #25 May 17th, 2001, 05:13 PM

For the solar sail/ no movement for ships problem, all we have to do is add a "1-per ship" really efficient engine.
It would give 1mp, use 1 supply point.

so it would be a navigational thruster, used to orient the spacecraft, like a rudder on a sailboat! Even the cheapest solar panel would give you unlimited range!

Nitram Draw · #26 May 17th, 2001, 05:16 PM

I'm the opposite.
I would like to see even more differances in the regular and phased shields. I would like to see the ability "skips phased shields" added. Then you could create phased skipping weapons too, give a use for the Menson bLaster maybe. You would have to really know the enemy then!
IIRC there is a bug when shield type are mixed so that would have to be worked out to but then you could have 10 levels of each shield and additional variety. It would probably require a lot of AI adjustment though

.

Hydraa · #27 May 17th, 2001, 05:21 PM

To give a different opinion on the shield/phased shield debate.

Phased shields are a enhanced technology that takes time to ramp up. IT may do more than it's technolgy that it replaces but it may take additinal time to ramp up

Computer moniters - we have crt and lcd screens (taking it ot basics).

We have overlap of the two technologies.

LCD starts out displaying less than a same era crt screen even though it has a smaller foot print. As LCD tech improves you get more colors and resolution to bring it up to or surpass the CRT maintaining the smaller footprint that it has.

Meanwhild LCD is more expensive than CRT for the same size.

My opinion is that the larger problem is in the way the ai and the upgrade process thinks that phased shields I are better then Shield V when in only a few case that is so.

Suicide Junkie · #28 May 17th, 2001, 05:53 PM

As for shield tech, I was thinking of making four different categories, with widely differing requirements.

A basic tech shield would be:
"Particulate shielding"
requires Physics 1 to open.
medium sized generators, "phased" shields, weak strength, moderate self-regeneration.
The generators would trap a thick cloud of dust in magnetic fields, to protect the ship.

"Magnetic Shields"
Massive generators, sucking lots of supplies, little regeneration, moderate strength, normal protection. Basically a incredibly intense magnetic field deflects most particle beams on the subatomic level.

Next would be a
"Spacial Turbulence Shield"
requires Physics 2 or stellar manipulation 5 to open.
The generators create a standing gravitational wave at a certain distance from the ship, distorting & scattering beam weapons, and tearing physical objects into shreds of plasma.
Large generator size, heavy shielding, standard shield points, little to no regeneration.

With physics 3 and gravitational weapons,
you get a graviton shield tech area.
Smallish generators, providing good strength shielding, fast regen, and phased shields. Really expensive.

so, basically, you would have to decide whether to continue to develop the current technology to get a little more oomph out of 'em, or spend a bunch of research to get the beginning next-generation technology, which starts out weaker, but has more potential.

quote:
normal V 300 500 0 (no change)
phased I 300 450 50
phased II 375 500 100
phased III 450 550 150
phased IV 525 600 200
phased V 600 650 250

Well, 600 shields in your shield V is definitely way too much. Try having the advances slow down as the tech matures: ie.
N1: 75 (+75)
N2: 125 (+50)
N3: 160 (+35)
N4: 185 (+25)
N5: 200 (+15)
P1: 200 (+phasing)
P2: 260 (+60)
P3: 300 (+40)
P4: 320 (+20)
P5: 330 (+10)

This way, phased are still a breakthrough tech, giving your research into shields new life, but it dosen't go way beyond the original SE4 max shield strength.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 17 May 2001).]

Puke · #29 May 17th, 2001, 08:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by geoschmo:
Nitpick alert...Nitpick alert...

Sorry Puke, the SR71 has never been caught by anything, and the U-2 wasn't cought by another aircraft. Gary Powers was shot down when the Soviet Air Defense sent up a BUNCH of surface to air missles. One managed to get close enough that when it exlploded it damaged his plane. (Of course the shotgun approach also knocked out at least one of the MIGS persuing him as well.)

Doesn't affect the point you were making. I just felt like being picky.
Geo

thank you for clarifying, i need to study up on my cold war facts it seems. i distinctly recal MIGs taking down one of our high altitude planes, it was part of how we came to realize the value of short range high speed planes. at least thats how the Version i read was selling the story. not sure which incident it was though, or with what aircraft.

DirectorTsaarx · #30 May 17th, 2001, 10:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Nitram Draw:
I'm the opposite.
I would like to see even more differances in the regular and phased shields. I would like to see the ability "skips phased shields" added. Then you could create phased skipping weapons too, give a use for the Menson bLaster maybe. You would have to really know the enemy then!

I think the only shield-skipping weapon that's affected by phased shields is the phased-polaron beam. ISTR that Null-Space Weapons and Temporal Shifters will ignore phased shields as well as normal shields...

Or are you suggesting a "Reverse-Phased-Polaron" type weapon that is stopped by normal shields but passes through phased shields?