New Mod: The Art of War Mod

[Baron Munchausen]

quote:

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Originally posted by geoschmo:


And now for an idea of my own, sort of. Devnull mod has tacheyon armor that protects weapons from the weapon damaging wepons that skip normal armor. I will be adding something similer that protects the engines, if I can pull it off. I think I have it figured out, just have to test it.

Geoschmo

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I've been wanting to verify how to make 'decoys' for all of the standard 'special damage' weapons, shields only, weapons only, and engines only. Does Devnull mod have all three of these? If not, what other mods have these so I can see exactly how it's done?

[Bman]

DUCs: Maybe they are emitting a stream of particles behind them which would propel them forward. Or maybe they are launched in a super-energetic state or something and as they travel this energy converts back to matter making the projectile have more mass, and thus more momentum.

Engine Armor: Good idea. I am guessing you make a new "engine component" which is just a damage sink? It might get tricky with the "all the engines need to be the same type to get the bonus" rule of se4.

quote:

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Originally posted by geoschmo:
LGM, I think I see what you mean. Give the weapons techs higher tech costs but take them out of the higher branches of the theoretical sciences. To put some distance between the levels, but keep the higest levels from becomeing astronimcaly expensive?

Baron, Not that it matters for game purposes, but wha? How does a projectile with no internal propulsion gain momentum with range? Projectiles won't decelerate in a vacuum, but they won't acelerate either.

Phoenix, I remember your "modular" missles. I was disapointed when you couldn't complete that, it sounded way cool. I may add a simplified Version of it. I don't have to teach the AI to use them, so that helps a lot.

And now for an idea of my own, sort of. Devnull mod has tacheyon armor that protects weapons from the weapon damaging wepons that skip normal armor. I will be adding something similer that protects the engines, if I can pull it off. I think I have it figured out, just have to test it.

Geoschmo

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[geoschmo]

Devnull has weapons only desoys, not the other two (Unless Rollo added them since the Last time I looked at it). Weapons only works by making an armor component that has low damage (No damage?) weapon ability. Since it's a weapon it gets hit by the weapon only attacks, since it's armor it gets hit before all the other weapons.

Shield only decoys and Engine only decoys would work the same way, at least that's my theory. I haven't tested it yet.

For engine armor though you run into the the problem of the Engine armor counting against your max number of engines per hull size. However, for AOW mod I will be making some changes to the propulsion system, including removing the max engines per ship limits, so it should work fine.

quote:

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It might get tricky with the "all the engines need to be the same type to get the bonus" rule of se4.

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Yeah, I haven't quite figured that one out, which is why I am saying it should work, but not that it will work.


Geoschmo

[ 30 April 2002: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Bman]

quote:

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Originally posted by geoschmo:

For engine armor though you run into the the problem of the Engine armor counting against your max number of engines per hull size. However, for AOW mod I will be making some changes to the propulsion system, including removing the max engines per ship limits, so it should work fine.

Yeah, I haven't quite figured that one out, which is why I am saying it should work, but not that it will work.


Geoschmo

[ 30 April 2002: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

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One solution is to take all the different engines you will be making and make armored-Versions of them instead of making an engine-armor component. They are the same except they have a higher damage rating. They are available if you have researched the required propulsion tech for the regular engine, plus some level in Armor. Perhaps you could make varying Versions of each armored-engine. The tradeoff could be more armor for less supply for example. It would lead to *alot* of different engines for people to pick from though.

[Cylapse]

Yeah I was wondering about that too - I had read somewhere that someone modded armor that wasn't pierecable by null weapons... or whatever. Just how -did- you accomplish that, anyway? The level that modding can be taken to seems to impress me every time.


Also - with regards to momentuum.
I came upon this issue too - how does it get faster in space? I read once about mass-drivers that the projectile is fired by "A series of magnetic rings that fire in a sequence, each gripping the core and sending it along the railgun to the next magnet, and so on... until the increasing moment barrels the core out of the cannon and well.. At that point, I have no idea why it would do more damage *LOL* but c'mon.... its a valid weapon concept - Just needs some technobabble or something to make it work. A torpedo weapon seems ideal for this... maybe it has some kind of ramscoup on it that harnesses stellar particles or some **** *LOL* So as it travels, damage increases. To be fair, it should really only be applied to seekers. Direct fire can be lethal with Talismans and an increasing range weapon. Its just not fair LOL

[Phoenix-D]

"Phoenix, I remember your "modular" missles. I was disapointed when you couldn't complete that, it sounded way cool. I may add a simplified Version of it. I don't have to teach the AI to use them, so that helps a lot"

I could complete them, they work fine. AI wouldn't be hard to adapt either- they all have different families.

It's not bad actually DOING it- though having all the missile graphics be so similar is a bit funky. The problem is balancing. Make one simple change and you've got to change many many entires. The torpedos were even worse. OTOH, I *could* send you what I've got. Let me know if you want them.

Phoenix-D

[geoschmo]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bman:
One solution is to take all the different engines you will be making and make armored-Versions of them instead of making an engine-armor component.<snip>Perhaps you could make varying Versions of each armored-engine.<snip> The tradeoff could be more armor for less supply for example. It would lead to *alot* of different engines for people to pick from though.

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I think I can do the same thing by creating the armor component and give it the appropriate movement bonus but no standard movement. You would have to choose the correct armor for your engine, but if I have the tech req's and families correct it should be fairly easy for the user. Just need to come up with some tech sounding reason why you have to switch armor (Engine Harmonics? ) and then it should work fine. That will allow the user to choose the amount of engine armor they feel is appropriate for the situation, and reduce the overall number of components.

Geoschmo

EDIT: Actually I think I jsut figured out this isn't even nessecary. Apparently the movement bonus doesn't have to all be the same, you just get the lowest bonus of all your engine components. So if I give the engine armor movement bonus equal to the highest possible engine level, then one armor should work for all the engines regardless. Cool!

[ 30 April 2002: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Phoenix-D]

"EDIT: Actually I think I jsut figured out this isn't even nessecary. Apparently the movement bonus doesn't have to all be the same, you just get the lowest bonus of all your engine components. So if I give the engine armor movement bonus equal to the highest possible engine level, then one armor should work for all the engines regardless. Cool!"

Are you going QNP propulsion or sticking with the regular system? Because in QNP movement bonuses can be pretty imbalancing.. but you're said you're removing engine limits, and that would be nuts in the regular system, unless you really really want to make the smaller ships even more obselete.

Phoenix-D

[geoschmo]

Phoenix, I am not going with the QNP, and I am removing the engine limits, and I am not nuts.

What I have planed, and this may end up getting modified or scrapped altogether, is a system similer to what was used for SEIII. As the ships get larger, the Engines per move goes up, but not as quickly as with QNP. And engines will always have one standard movemnet point, but with the higher level ones getting the bonus movement as is the current stock system. My idea is that the escort with level 1 engines to go a speed of 6 has 6 engines, and has 40% of it's mass dedicated to engines. That's percentage for a movement of 6 I want to remain steady as the ships get larger.

So for the Destroyer, it will be 2 engines per move, for the cruiser, 3 per move, etc. Every 150Kt step in hull mass will bump the engines per move up one.

So I will remove the max engines per hull, but the highest actual speed for a ships will be in the 12 to 15 range, and that will be with all engines. And I have some ideas to keep that further limited.

Again, it's all kind of preliminary at this point, so I am not sure how much of the current ideas I am kincking around will be in the final mod.

Geo

[Phoenix-D]

OK, that I could see working. I was picturing a dreadnaught running around at speed 30 or something, running down the hapless escorts who could only go 12, max.

Phoenix-D