What SC do you wish for?

[Edratman]

There is one way to find out. Try it.

[Edratman]

In fact, if you play as Gem Valley on a map with about 125 provinces using MA Ulm and the 5 nations in the "Improved Computer Opponents" mod at impossible or whatever setting you feel comfortable with (more shameless self promotion), I absolutely 100% guarantee a game like you never experienced before.

Furthermore, if you find these claims misleading or misrepresentative in any manner, the FULL price of the mods will be cheerfully refunded. (Shipping and handling fees not included.)

[AreaOfEffect]

Originally Posted by JaghataiKhan

Sounds interesting. But how will Ulm play? Ulm ME is simply a nonmagic war machine, a Nichtzauberpanzer

I resent that statement completely. MA Ulm can easily be a magical powerhouse. Especially with a blood stone factory. They can also unload huge amounts of magic items. They are anything BUT non-magical. Sacred power on the other hand is non-existent.

Edit: Getting back on the topic, I would love to summon a pretender but the limited magical abilities often prevent this. One exception would be the immortal thug gods like the Risen Oracle. Low magic power but amazing HP and MR for an immortal unit. My guess is that a national hero might easily trump this option though.

[Epaminondas]

I've taken a 180 on the Wish issue. It's way too unbalanced (esp. in SP, because the AI doesn't seem to know how to utilize it at all), and makes the SP game too easy. So I've disabled it altogether. I may even begin to use Kristoffer's mods that restricts your magic research if I deem too many upper-level spells are over-powered.

[thejeff]

You really can't expect end-game SP to be balanced. To much of the game is focused on being able to react to your enemies strategies, especially later in the game when you have so many options available.

Without actually producing a real learning AI, the game just can't counter what good player can throw at it. It could be improved, but it's never going to be able to respond to tactics the way a real player can. SC counters, army destroying spells, etc, etc are far too situational.

It's much better earlier in the game when the gold/production advantage impossible AIs get is more relevant. Especially with some of the tricks suggested here (NI mod, using map commands to design pretenders, etc)

So, yes, Wish is unbalanced against the AI. So are dozens of other high-level spells. That doesn't mean they're unbalanced in MP.
Besides I've never gotten to Wish in an SP game without being already so dominant it's not fun anymore. With the SCs and hordes of battle mages I'll have by that point it's just a matter of slogging through the remaining provinces.

But I still lose to the AI a good chunk of the time in the early game.

[Epaminondas]

Originally Posted by thejeff

You really can't expect end-game SP to be balanced. To much of the game is focused on being able to react to your enemies strategies, especially later in the game when you have so many options available.

Without actually producing a real learning AI, the game just can't counter what good player can throw at it. It could be improved, but it's never going to be able to respond to tactics the way a real player can. SC counters, army destroying spells, etc, etc are far too situational.

It's much better earlier in the game when the gold/production advantage impossible AIs get is more relevant. Especially with some of the tricks suggested here (NI mod, using map commands to design pretenders, etc)

So, yes, Wish is unbalanced against the AI. So are dozens of other high-level spells. That doesn't mean they're unbalanced in MP.
Besides I've never gotten to Wish in an SP game without being already so dominant it's not fun anymore. With the SCs and hordes of battle mages I'll have by that point it's just a matter of slogging through the remaining provinces.

But I still lose to the AI a good chunk of the time in the early game.

What setting do you play at usually?

Though I've never played MP, I am very skeptical that Wish is not over-powered even in MP. You may be right in the sense that most MP games are decided before Wish is researched; but once someone has it, sheer arithmetic demonstrates that it is too powerful (see my example of what "magic power" does and compare it to how many gems it would require to pull off the same at the higher levels). Another MP factor that I may not be sufficiently account for may be, however, that the AI rarely dispels my Arcane Nexus global, and hence I am getting 100-plus Astral gems per turn easy.

[AreaOfEffect]

Originally Posted by Epaminondas

What setting do you play at usually?

Though I've never played MP, I am very skeptical that Wish is not over-powered even in MP. You may be right in the sense that most MP games are decided before Wish is researched; but once someone has it, sheer arithmetic demonstrates that it is too powerful (see my example of what "magic power" does and compare it to how many gems it would require to pull off the same at the higher levels). Another MP factor that I may not be sufficiently account for may be, however, that the AI rarely dispels my Arcane Nexus global, and hence I am getting 100-plus Astral gems per turn easy.

You are correct, Wish is the most effective way in the entire Dominions universe to raise your magic skills. (Unless you already have a rainbow mage with all or almost all magic paths. Then a Ring of Wizardry or Robe of the Magi is better.) However, that in of itself is not a winning strategy. It is instead investing more gems into a single unit which can be destroyed. It only amounts to victory if those extra skills allow you to do something you couldn't before, which is in actuality the victoriously overpowered spell.

Wish, by itself, can't make a province yours. Wish can't assassinate a particular unit. Wish can't even grant you an army. (A huge pile of militia does not count as an army. It counts as a waste of your gold via upkeep cost.) Wish is a tool to be combined with other spells. It can't even grant you an actual super combatant until you cast Gift of Reason afterword. Even then you need to forge quality items in order to keep that initial investment of 120 gems safe. Just because you see it amazingly efficient at doing one thing, does not make it overpowered.

Edit: By the way, you really need to play a MP game.

[thejeff]

I usually use impossible AIs. These days I've been playing smaller maps so there's more action early on when the AIs are more effective.
If I'm rushed by huge AI armies from multiple nations early on, I'll probably lose. If I get time to grow to midgame, the AI stops being able to compete.

As far as MP goes, I've never really been a factor in the late-game, so I'm mostly judging from commentary here. Bear in mind you won't be the only one wishing in MP. Arcane Nexus is one of the game-ending spells. Don't cast it in MP unless you're actually intent on declaring war on the rest of the world. Clamming and eventually wishes for gems are the usual way of funding wishes.
Magic power is generally not considered a particularly useful wish, sure it would take far more gems to duplicate without wish, but it's not all that useful to have 1 caster with 10s in every path. Hardly needed for rituals and if you send him out on the field, even fully equipped he'll likely die in a battle or two. Sure arithmetic shows it's powerful, but is it useful?

Everyone will have an end-game strategy. Using clams to fund wishes, mostly for Seraph class SCs is one of them. Maybe even the most effective. Clams require a lot of investment upfront and can be hard to mass if you're forced to fight most of the game.
Blood nations have their own paths. Tartarians are still effective and cheaper.

[Epaminondas]

Originally Posted by AreaOfEffect

Edit: By the way, you really need to play a MP game.

I know! But I don't see how things can work out logistically. How can you coordinate a turn-based game with over 10 people (which is the critical mass required to have a good game)? Do a turn a week?

[thejeff]

Usually a turn a day (or more if people get to it quickly) to start, eventually slowing to every 2 days or more as turns take longer.

It's well under an hour a day for the first few years. Just sign up for a game and try it out.