Auto-routing alternatives

[Endoperez]

It wouldn't come into play often enough, and I opposed it more because I didn't like your "modern computers should be able to handle it" comment than due to not liking the suggestion.

I'd understand initiating the auto-rout at turn 125, auto-kill at 150, but 400 turns? That'd have been 350 turns of Word of God or 'waiting for one turn to get fatigue from 100 to 95" after the fatigue was enough to throw my SC unconscious.

[Zeldor]

OTHER important thing that should be done with routing mechanics:

'never routs' attibute given to the defender of the capitol [just fort, not province]. The last soldiers defending the capitol should never even think about leaving the battlefield. They have nowhere to go so they should fight till death. That's good both from thematic and gameplay aspect.

In one game cleveland attacked my army with quite large force. I have won the battle but I had elephants that died. They triggered the auto-rout sequence and it was my last province. So I have lost 38! [thirty eight!] mages! due to auto-rout into enemy territory. I could have successfully defended that fort for 10-20 turns, until someone would bring proper siege force. But no, they decided to run away into enemy territory when winning just because some elephants died. It has sense when you have a place to run away and regroup.

[thejeff]

But you can retreat from a capital battle. If you've got other provinces, the troops can even escape and continue fighting.

You may even want all your researchers to escape and join the relieving army that was one turn away from lifting the siege before it was too late.

[Dedas]

In history it is VERY rare that defenders, even when defending a castle or bastion, fought to the last man. Either they surrendered or found ways of escape.

[cleveland]

Zeldor said:
In one game cleveland attacked my army with quite large force.

It really was an extremely unsatisfying battle for both of us.

All of his mages spontaneously retreated after I paralyzed his Golem, to be lost because his fort was surrounded. I can justify this, though...they were running for their lives, and choose to surrender rather than be killed on the field; certainly not uncommon in human history.

So all that stood between me and total victory was a paralyzed Golem. My manikins start chiseling him down from 70hp...68hp...67hp......5hp...3hp when the auto-rout kicked. My commanders retreated, and the remaining ~50 manikins suffered mindless dissolution. Doh!

[Zeldor]

We are playing a game with pretenders. Most units fanatically follow their beliefs.

Routing from your last bastion shouldn't be an option. You stay there and die in the glory of your god. Well, glory of what's left from that god.

cleveland:
If there was no routing on both sides at all I think I would win that batttle. Golem was not hurt as long as my mages were there. They would banish remaining manikins and golem would probably kill your leaders.

[Dedas]

When I'm fighting golems, if possible, I give at least a couple of cheap commanders hammer of the mountains (only 5 earth gems). It is not a huge investment but it usually pays off when you paralyzed the beast (not very hard to hit).

[thejeff]

But most units don't fanatically follow their beliefs. Some do, some are much more cowardly. And if you're losing your last bastion, isn't that a pretty good indication that you're following a false god? Certainly enough to provoke a crisis of faith.

And again, it's not necessarily true that your capital is your last bastion, or that there is no hope of retreat from a battle in your capital.

[Zeldor]

I am now speaking about situation when it is. Especially when battle is won. At least changing 75%HP to 75%HP AND 50-75% unit count. So few high HP units do not force remaining army to rout.

[cleveland]

Zeldor said:
If there was no routing on both sides at all I think I would win that batttle.

Definitely. But your army routed thematically: their champion was paralyzed. My army routed athematically: it was supper time, and you can't kill a paralyzed 3hp golem on an empty stomach.

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Back to the topic of the thread:

Endoperez said:
I'd understand initiating the auto-rout at turn 125, auto-kill at 150, but 400 turns?

I just threw 5X out there as a seemingly impossible-to-reach-without-having-entered-an-infinite-loop turn limit.

125/150 seems pretty reasonable, and would certainly be better than 50/75.

I frankly don't have enough experience to suggest "optimal" turn limits, but 50/75 is too short; simply increasing the limits would be a quick and easy way to alleviate the problem (read: available in 3.16, in time for the megagame).