Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews

[PvK]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:

If you go REALLY fast in real space, you should theoreticlly end up going back in time. The apparent time slows as you speed up and approach the speed of light, so "logiclly" after a point it should start running backwards.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the limit of this theoretical effect, is that everyone else would see the fast ship as if it were moving almost as fast as the speed of light. The fast ship would in theory seem like it was travelling faster than the speed of light, as if there were no speed limit, but even with infinite speed, the time to reach the destination would be at least zero, but never less than zero. T = D/V. As long as D(istance) and V(elocity) are positive, change in T(ime) is positive. The only way to get negative T(ime) is to go away from your destination, which just means you're going the wrong direction in space, not in time.

So as far as I can tell, the "Star Trek slingshot effect" (like many of the rest of the explanations of Star Trek effects) is entirely a result of writers with much greater immagination than their knowledge of math and physics.

PvK

[Suicide Junkie]

V= D/T, mixed with relativity, eh?

Unfortunately, at relativistic speeds, time is distorted as well as space.

As you go faster and faster, time slows down for the other object. If faster than light speeds would make the time negative, then the ship would see the universe getting younger, and the universe would see the ship getting younger. Once the ship decelerates, the twin paradox effect should make the end result be that the ship would end up younger, and the rest of the universe be slightly older than when the whole thing started.

[ December 04, 2002, 03:03: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[Taera]

i've read previous Posts about borg's shields, and there's a realy simple solution - Regen Shield per Hit.
Give Bord some weak shields, which though would regenerate pretty much when the armor is hit. think CA.

[Krsqk]

If a CA-style armor had 500 damage-to-shield points, and max shields were 300, would 450 points of damage regenerate 300 shields and do 150 damage, or just regenerate 300 shields? Or would it be 450?

[Fyron]

I'd test it if I were you.

[Suicide Junkie]

It dosen't. Your max shields is the max.
If your generators are destroyed, you get max of zero.

If you are hit by PPB when you have normal shields, they charge up to full, and then stay.

The solution is to give the Crystalline shields exactly as much (phased) shield generation as crystalline effect.

[PvK]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
D= V/T, mixed with relativity, eh?

D=V/T? No. D = V x T.

If D = V / T, the longer you travelled, the less far you'd go.

Unfortunately, at relativistic speeds, time is distorted as well as space.

As you go faster and faster, time slows down for the other object.

Maybe in the egocentric universe imagined by Star Trek authors. In the 20th Century Earth physics I studied, I don't recall any such thing. A fast moving object is not going to have temporal side-effects from the frame of reference of the rest of the universe. It's own perception of time is what changes, if you believe the theory.

If faster than light speeds would make the time negative, then the ship would see the universe getting younger, and the universe would see the ship getting younger.

Again, I assume you're talking to Spock here, and not to Einstein. Quantum theory, unless I'm wrong, maintains that the speed of light will not be exceeded. It's just that "time slows down" from the perspective of the traveller. From no perspective, however, does time stop or reverse.

Once the ship decelerates, the twin paradox effect should make the end result be that the ship would end up younger, and the rest of the universe be slightly older than when the whole thing started.

Seems to me that yes, the universe would be slightly older, as usual, and the very fast ship would be younger, but only younger than it would have been if it were standing still, from the stationary frame of reference. The ship will still be older than it was before it started moving.

For example, if we hook up a drive capable of what would be ten times the speed of light to a Twinkie, and send it five light-years away and back (ten light-years total distance), we'll see it re-appear in ten years time, and history will not be changed, but the Twinkie will only have aged one year. No humpback whales will be saved.

PvK

[Spoo]

By the way, the stuff from the other movies and the original series about traveling back in time by using the sling shot effect, flying around the sun really fast, never did make much sense...

Maybe it has something to do with activating the warp field in a strong gravitational well...

[Suicide Junkie]

D, V, T.

Typo. My bad.

quote:

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...faster, time slows down for the other object

Maybe in the egocentric universe imagined by Star Trek authors. In the 20th Century Earth physics I studied, I don't recall any such thing. A fast moving object is not going to have temporal side-effects from the frame of reference of the rest of the universe. It's own perception of time is what changes, if you believe the theory.

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Time *appears* to slow down for the other object.
If a ship moves past a planet, who's to say the planet isn't moving past the ship instead. The time dilation works both ways. That's all I'm saying

quote:

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If faster than light speeds would make the time negative, then the ship would see the universe getting younger, and the universe would see the ship getting younger.

Again, I assume you're talking to Spock here, and not to Einstein. Quantum theory, unless I'm wrong, maintains that the speed of light will not be exceeded. It's just that "time slows down" from the perspective of the traveller. From no perspective, however, does time stop or reverse.

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We were already talking about FTL. The ability to magically accelerate past the speed of light was a given in this problem. Given that assumption, the rest is reasonable, eh?

quote:

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Once the ship decelerates, the twin paradox effect should make the end result be that the ship would end up younger, and the rest of the universe be slightly older than when the whole thing started.

Seems to me that yes, the universe would be slightly older, as usual, and the very fast ship would be younger, but only younger than it would have been if it were standing still, from the stationary frame of reference. The ship will still be older than it was before it started moving.

For example, if we hook up a drive capable of what would be ten times the speed of light to a Twinkie, and send it five light-years away and back (ten light-years total distance), we'll see it re-appear in ten years time, and history will not be changed, but the Twinkie will only have aged one year. No humpback whales will be saved.
PvK[/QB]

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I agree that the ship will appear in ten year's time. I also agree the whales will not be saved. I do NOT agree that the twinkie will be roughly one year older.
If the twinkie were travelling at a non-relativistic speed, it would age normally. If it were travelling at a very high sublight speed it would age less. If it were travelling at the speed of light, it would not age at all.
So, faster must make for younger.

[capnq]

If the twinkie were travelling at a non-relativistic speed, it would age normally

In other words, not at all. Twinkies are forever.