Gamey tactics discussion thread

[Rasorow]

Actually it is relevant, German forces went out of their way to surrender to US/British forces instead of being captured by the Russians. This is the exactly the same senario as me surrendering to Narf because I do not want to surrender my forces to Cyclops who detonated the sun in a remote but heavily populated system killing trillions in a murderous sneak attack.

Rasorow

PS - just throwing people out there that I have met on the Boards, not saying they would or would not do any of this.

[Fyron]

No, it is not relevant, because they were still surrendering to an _enemy_ involved in their conquest, not a random 3rd party.

[spoon]

What is or is not gamey is hard to define, because there is no definition of "gamey". That said, I only play in games where surrender is Banned (or restricted to surrendering to the person stomping you (though I prefer a strict ban)). The reason? Because of the way surrender works in the game, it can completely ruin the fun. I've been in at least two games that were scrapped as soon as one player surrendered...

[Gandalf Parker]

spoon said: The reason? Because of the way surrender works in the game, it can completely ruin the fun. I've been in at least two games that were scrapped as soon as one player surrendered...

I wondered about that because to me it seemed worse to not surrender when you should. But your reason makes sense.

[sachmo]

spoon said:
What is or is not gamey is hard to define, because there is no definition of "gamey". That said, I only play in games where surrender is Banned (or restricted to surrendering to the person stomping you (though I prefer a strict ban)). The reason? Because of the way surrender works in the game, it can completely ruin the fun. I've been in at least two games that were scrapped as soon as one player surrendered...

Agreed. Since surrender is instant, it can be a major problem in a game.
There should be AT LEAST a few months of chaos while supply lines are reformed, diehards refuse to surrender, planets rebel, etc.

[Tanus]

spoon said:The reason? Because of the way surrender works in the game, it can completely ruin the fun. I've been in at least two games that were scrapped as soon as one player surrendered...

I totally agree. I was in one game where me and my ally were about to take over 2 seperate enemies, and they both 'surrendered' to our largest foe, who was their ally. That wasn't even the first time that happend that game, so we both left. (was about the 4th empire that surrendered to him just prior to being conquered/attacked in force)

I won't play in any game that surrender is allowed.

[Parasite]

I think of surrendering to allies like what Poland did. All the troops they could get out and all the Navy ships they had went to England. At least England from then on wrote their orders and paid their maintanace. Germany then got to keep all they had taken and whatever else they could keep or take later. France is kind of the same way. Even though they surrendered to Germany, some of their colonies at least somewhat supported the allies.

Of course this is not a exact match to what happens, but I use it as a possible approximation.

[Fyron]

Except that Germany still got all of Poland's land and resources... that is not what happens in SE4. Very, very far from it. You can do what you describe by gifting your ships to an ally.

[Rasorow]

ok, I will admit some valid points on the immediate surrender. What if surrender "gifted" ships and units on the ships, while planets went to nuetrals (units planetside were destroyed - the melting of the army before the aggressors). What military planets could form before being conquered would represent the resistance to the invader. The more time it takes the invader to get there the more resistance they would have. Additionally this would allow other empires to "fund" the resistance with gifts of ships and units.

Rasorow

[sachmo]

It's just not in some people to hold out until the bitter end. I don't really understand that point of view, but I can see how it can happen. Hopefully, in SEV this will be addressed.