Seekers ability to hit a target.

[dmm]

How I would improve seekers:
1) Better to-hit probability than direct fire, but not 100%.
2) To-hit probability would decrease as seeker moved, simulating effect of countermeasures.
3) They would move as soon as they were fired.
4) They would go after "opportunity targets" once they had traveled half their range, if the alternative were within their movement allotment and the primary target were not. Would also go after "opportunity targets" if the primary target were destroyed.
5) Would ramp up their speed faster than current research tree does.
6) Offensive bonuses, like sensors, would affect to-hit probability during the first movement. After that, the seeker would be on its own.
7) Defensive bonuses, like ECM and small size, would affect to-hit probability of seekers.

Maybe some of these improvements (like perhaps 3, 4, and 6 above) would come about due to research. Really, I'd love to see seekers be customizable, like troops and fighters, but that's just a dream for now.

[Daynarr]

quote:

---

What beam weapon has a range of 12 or more and does damage of 50 or more?[/b]

---

What beam weapon can be shot down with PD weapons?
They are large, slow firing, you can outrun them and now you won't them to miss?

[WhiteHojo]

Originally posted by Seawolf:

quote:

---

With advance targeting systems I can see a 100% hit chance.

---

This reminded me of a question I had during a game (I really need to take notes when playing) if you have the Religious Talisman that allows for AutoHits when using Direct Fire Weapons, will it also work w/PDs? And if not does the Combat Sensors component affect PDs, ie. increase their % chance to hit?

Also, while my memory is working, anybody know how the Alliegence Subverter works? That is, what factors play into whether or not it is successfull, ie-target ship experience level? target fleet experience lvl? range? target defenses (shields, ecm, master computers, etc)?, attacking ship exp lvl? attacking fleet exp lvl?

I've looked at the data files and can't find anything helpfull in em?

As always, any help would be appreciated.

------------------
Character is best defined as that which you do when you believe nobody is watching.

[This message has been edited by WhiteHojo (edited 25 January 2001).]

[lwmweb]

There is a perfect defense against the always-hit seekers. It is called point defense. PDs never miss. I research them early and put them on all of my ships. I do not worry if I run into a race that has seekers I just do not want them to have many PDs.

PD's have more than one chance to hit if you back-up only a few squares. When I want to capture a planet that has weapons platforms (I normally do not worry about how many) with many seekers I just rub my hands. I work within 1 move distance for my troop ship letting my PD's handle the seekers. With this method I do not need to fire on the planet and damage facilities I will want to use.

For those who think PD's are not worth it you might try getting close to enemy satellites and see what a PD does to them. In my experience when you get close they seem to do more damage than other small beam weapon. They also are very good against fighters. That makes three good uses for PD's.

On another note seekers that picked "targets of opportunity" at there choice would be somewhat useless. I mean it works in Hollywood but most missiles today (including torpedoes) go after what they are locked on to. If their target is destroyed then they should be able to look for targets of opportunity. When I fire at a ship that is the ship I feel is a threat.

[Zanthis]

Daynarr wrote:

quote:

---

They [seekers] are large, slow firing, you can outrun them and now you won't them to miss?

---

Speak for yourself. The slowest seeker in my games is speed 8, the best speed 18. Outrun that.

[Zanthis]

dmm wrote:

quote:

---

3) They would move as soon as they were fired.

---

Actually, I'd like this to be an ability placed on the launcher itself. Kinda a "catapult" ability. So, a high tech launcher might "throw" the missile out 6-8 spaces initially, then the missile travels on its own engines.

I'd also like MOO2's missile movement system: When the targeted ship moves, the missiles targeted on it move at the same time.

[Seawolf]

quote:

---

Originally posted by dmm:

What are these seekers using to seek!? They never miss, and they never divert from their initial target. Explosions and weapons fire all around? No problem. Countermeasures? No effect. Identical ship crosses path of missile? It can't be tricked. Target goes behind other ships or planet? You can't hide. Debris, asteroids, storm, or nebula? No effect. ECM? Don't bother.

Instead of CSM it should be SCM, for Santa Claus Missile, in honor of their omniscience.

---

dmm,

Maybe they not "seekers" in a true sense. Maybe they being guided by some means. Like the TOW anti tank missile which has a wire attached to the missile to give it guidence until it's target or maybe IT like the current AAMRAM missile that uses both a link to it's lauching aircraft as well as it's internal seeker to reach a target.

I think the AI scrip needs to be tweeked so that they put PDC on theirs ships when needed but otherwise the 100% is fine. Not realistic maybe but it works for the game.



------------------
Seawolf on the prowl

[Commander G]

If seekers are changed to use the ToHit percentage, they should also get a better chance to hit than most weapons. But I agree, ECMs and Ship Defense Racial Modifiers should come into play.

I myself prefer to research Point Defenses in PBEM games early because Missles are very potent at that stage. I recently won a battle in a PBEM game with two missle Frigates (two missles, one PD) against two UR cannon Frigates (3 UR cannon IIs) and decisively won. I ended up non needing the point defense, because he did not employ missles. However, if he would have used missles without Point Defense he would have lost as well. The simple fact is that missles are very powerful in the early game and point defense are critical unless you can get your enemy to agree to not use missles.

FYI: Those Point Defense are also useful against Satelites and Fighters, which missles cannot target.

If you have point defense and your enemy does not, he has to research point defenses as well to fight you!

[rdouglass]

Seawolf, I can't agree with you on the statement that tow missles are seekers. They (TOW's) are "guided" missles and not seekers IMO. A seeker implies intellience as in our "fire and forget" smart bombs.

When I was in the Army and had an opportunity to shoot one of those tows (boy was that fun!!!), I remember that I had to keep my eye on the target. If I did not, the TOW would miss. Of course, it dod not take long at all for the TOW to reach its target.

However with SE4, it can take 3-4 combat turns for a seeker to reach its target. That implies an intelligence since you can target other ships / objects on your very next turn after firing (the seekers).

I don't know what they're seeking but I would think that a ship with all that stuff (and propulsion power used in combat) would be pretty easy for a seeker to key in on something: infrared, em emmisions, SOMETHING!!

[Tomgs]

How about a component that cloaked your emmisions from seekers? It would give you a chance to be missed but only if you had that special type of ECM device. Maybe it should be added into the combat support tree. I don't think this is something that could be modded the way the game is now but maybe its an addition that would help with this controversy.

If this was added maybe different types of missles and ECM could be added. Engine seeking (but not engine destroying) missles. And perhaps missles that used temporal or psysic sensor technology to acquire targets with the appropriate ECM to block those types of seekers. Hmm this may be a better idea for drones though. That way you could build them with the appropriate type of target acquisition device.

[This message has been edited by Tomgs (edited 25 January 2001).]