Adamant Mod Discussion Thread

[Fyron]

It is always possible to exploit the AI, no matter the mod... you can always make them not accept trades or surrenders, ever, but that kind of detracts from any sort of interaction with them...

[JLS]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
It is always possible to exploit the AI, no matter the mod... you can always make them not accept trades or surrenders, ever, but that kind of detracts from any sort of interaction with them...

I never suggested "accept trades or surrenders turned" off...

Just change your Data so the Human Players can’t build a Huge Fortress Ships and extra large Juggernaut from the beginning of the game

[ October 27, 2003, 22:52: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Fyron]

I have a Juggernaut and a Fortress Ship, both of which require level 16 ship construction techs. Am I missing something here?

[JLS]

Your Colonizer is 3300 kt and every time a Player builds one the score will climb, every time a player lands the score will drop; dramatically.


Now if I have 6 in flight to planets and building one and a Avg Gas Type AI has 2 in flight you have the AI out scored in this area alone; this AI Player is forced into thinking you have a huge fleet:

If the AI or an unfamiliar Human Player is near all I need is several 3300kt Colony ships over my Home World plus several fair ships but far inferior to my opponant; However, my score may have me master. Or at least apear that way

Reference

Adamant Colonizer Hull

Name := Colony Ship
Short Name := Colony Ship
Description :=
Code := CL
Primary Bitmap Name := ColonyShip
Alternate Bitmap Name := ColonyShip
Vehicle Type := Ship
Tonnage := 3300
Cost Minerals := 150
Cost Organics := 600
Cost Radioactives := 0
Engines Per Move := 18


=============================================
AI POLITICS DATA FILE - Default
=============================================

This file governs how an empire decides to send Messages. (Accept Messages and set Postures and much, much more)

Score Percent:
This is the percentage of the target player's score to ours. So
if we have a score of 10000, and they have a score of 15000, this percentage
would be 150%.

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

In addition, as far as I recall as of se4 v1.78 and probably to date the AI will not build ships that are over a certain KT. If IRRC its between 400 and 590 kt, so in effect your AI will not build Colonizer over (what ever it was 400 to 590) in simu games for 50 turns, you may consider reducing your Colonizers to that minimum.

You may attempt some setting in the AI DATA FILE - Settings
, but in all probability it will be for not. In v1.78 for a +600 ship, I spent days trying to get this to work

You also may want to confirm this with Malfader.


================================================
AI DATA FILE - Settings
==================================================

Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 1 Amount := 510
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 1 Num Turns := 20
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 2 Amount := 610
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 2 Num Turns := 40
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 3 Amount := 0
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 3 Num Turns := 0

[ October 28, 2003, 01:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

Forget it, sully after E Koli post why do you even bother to help.

E Koli maybe I would like to play a LAN game in Adamant with a good AI like I do with the AIC MOD.
When you only have 1 or two freinds over, its not much fun one on one ot two against one.

Fyron I noticed the Rock Natives Trait/Tech and Compnent LAYOUT from JLS work in the AIC mod released Last febuary

[ October 28, 2003, 07:04: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[Fyron]

All that score stuff can easily be taken care of... just double or triple the score ratios necessary for those bad treaties and surrenders. Do AI bonus resources count towards their score? I forget. If so, then an AI with even a low bonus has 2x the starting score from resources as the human does, so a few colony ships will not be that drastic.

In addition, as far as I recall as of se4 v1.78 and probably to date the AI will not build ships that are over a certain KT. If IRRC its between 400 and 590 kt, so in effect your AI will not build Colonizer over (what ever it was 400 to 590) in simu games for 50 turns, you may consider reducing your Colonizers to that minimum.

You may attempt some setting in the AI DATA FILE - Settings
, but in all probability it will be for not. In v1.78 for a +600 ship, I spent days trying to get this to work

You also may want to confirm this with Malfader.

You can certainly have AIs building big ships, just increase the design sizes and max tonnage at various start levels. Have you never seen any TDM AIs with baseships or DNs? Or, have you never seen the AIs build colony ships in Proportions or AIC? In there, colony ships are 1800 kT.

Forget it, sully after E Koli post why do you even bother to help.

Because Ekolis does not represent everyone that plays SE4... his opinion is no more or less valid than yours.

Fyron I noticed the Rock Natives Trait/Tech and Compnent LAYOUT from JLS work in the AIC mod released Last febuary

Huh? I am confused. What exactly are you refering too? I incorporated the Colony Tech Mod by Ekolis moments after it came out some time ago... I do not see this stuff in AIC. Please clarify.

[ October 28, 2003, 07:31: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Alneyan]

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JLS:
However, the cold truth is; for without the AI understanding your data Fyron, all you have in Adamant is a depository of past and the present cells of Facilities, Platforms, and Components along with images, geo and eco support that is pure and unrefined data that for the most part; only a Human may read and then possibly understand its intended use.

Uh, are you saying that a mod is useless without good AI files? I personally play SE4 almost exclusively multiplayer, because it's such a long, drawn-out game that I can never motivate myself to finish a single-player game; I need other people who are depending on me to play my empire

---

No, JLS was merely speaking of the understanding of Adamant by the AI. For an AI, Adamant is currently only a lot of facilities, hulls, components and so on, impossible to understand and to use. He said that because Fyron and he were discussing which AI to use as a fundation, how to best code an AI and other technical matter alongs these lines. So JLS didn't say anything about the usefulness of a mod with or without AI files.

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by JLS:
Your Colonizer is 3300 kt and every time a Player builds one the score will climb, every time a player lands the score will drop; dramatically.
Now if I have 6 in flight to planets and building one and a Avg Gas Type AI has 2 in flight you have the AI out scored in this area alone; this AI Player is forced into thinking you have a huge fleet:
If the AI or an unfamiliar Human Player is near all I need is several 3300kt Colony ships over my Home World plus several fair ships but far inferior to my opponant; However, my score may have me master. Or at least apear that way

In addition, as far as I recall as of se4 v1.78 and probably to date the AI will not build ships that are over a certain KT. If IRRC its between 400 and 590 kt, so in effect your AI will not build Colonizer over (what ever it was 400 to 590) in simu games for 50 turns, you may consider reducing your Colonizers to that minimum.

JLS I remember in LAN games that the AI would not build 1500kt Colonizers in Proportions for almost 100 turns but I think that was fixed in se4 v1.78 or se4 1.84.

But I see your point about the AI thinking that a 3300 KT Colonizer can be a Massive Base Ship.

[ October 28, 2003, 15:00: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[tesco samoa]

hmm... geo that is a problem.

As is the current situation. A bad start and your done. Which is what I currently have. And yes I have maxed the ship out with the supply storage. But it is worthless as it is now due to the fact that the engines use too much supplies at the beginning. I am sure it is corrected later on in the game. But that is illrevelent to the current situation. As I am talking about the early game with low tech start.

It is an issue.

[Grand Lord Vito]

JLS:
"In addition, as far as I recall as of se4 v1.78 and probably to date the AI will not build ships that are over a certain KT. If IRRC its between 400 and 590 kt, so in effect your AI will not build Colonizer over (what ever it was 400 to 590) in simu games for 50 turns, you may consider reducing your Colonizers to that minimum.
You also may want to confirm this with Malfader"


Fyron:
"You can certainly have AIs building big ships, just increase the design sizes and max tonnage at various start levels. Have you never seen any TDM AIs with baseships or DNs? Or, have you never seen the AIs build colony ships in Proportions or AIC? In there, colony ships are 1800 kT."

I guess you never played LAN fyron, because prior to the Last se4 patched Version the AI would not build ships over 600kt for 50 to 100 turns

JLS can you confirm if this is fixed yet, I think it was.

[ October 28, 2003, 16:38: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]