MBT's

[dmnt]

Quick recap (for Don et al.): Finnish 2A6s to be delivered early, OOB dates still stand correct.

First batch of Finnish 2A6s from Netherlands will be delivered in May 2015, approximately 20 vehicles.
Helsingin Sanomat newspaper, in Finnish

First Leopard 2A6 tanks that Finland bought will be shipped to port of Hanko in May. It is a batch of about 20 vehicles from the purchase from Netherlands.

Finland bought a year ago a hundred 2nd hand Leopard 2A6 main battle tanks. The total price was about 200 million euros. They will replace little by little the currently used Leopard 2A4 models which Finland currently has 139 units.

According to military personnel the new tank has improved firepower and maneuverability.
-- -- --
First conscripts to lay their hands on them will be conscripts of July 2016.
-- -- --
Training with old tanks will cease in 2017. After that they will be used in reserve training.
"We are also prepared to utilize 2A6s earlier. In case of urgent need we can re-train 2A4 operators into 2A6 equipment.", says Colonel Jukka Valkeajärvi.
-- -- --
There is already a newer model of Leopard tank family, 2A7.

"Germany has couple dozens of them and they are ordering more. There's little changes externally compared to 2A6", says Valkeajärvi.

"The differences are mostly fire control system and further improvements to night operation capability."

That "2A7 doesn't differ much from 2A6" is what puzzles me a bit, as I'm under impression that 2A7 should have better armor.

Other stuff from the article in short:

• The tanks are delivered in operational condition
• The FDF personnel have already been trained to the system in Netherlands

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Finnish tanks your welcome! About what's being the LEOPARD 2A7+ PITA here's KMW if nothing else seems to work including this PC MAYBE A WORD FROM OUR "SPONSOR" KMW builder of the LEOPARD Series will, then again who knows.
http://www.kmweg.com/home/tracked-ve...formation.html
http://www.kmweg.com/fileadmin/user_...RD_2_A7_EN.pdf

The new FCS discussed (To include sights) is the much reported in this Thread ATTICA System which also as reported, already being installed on the later model LEOPARD 2A6 tanks as well. On the passive armor, think next generation passive armor that was used on the LEOPARD EVOLUTION tanks. The most recent user of a slightly similar system (Developmental if you will for the 2A7+.) was Turkeys LEOPARD-2T we entered about 3-4 years back I think and was developed with KMW support.
http://www.kmweg.com/home/tracked-ve...formation.html

Sorry for the frustration but Mozilla and my mouse/keyboard are not playing well together and I lost 40 mins of work in providing "Jake's" final reply in the APC Thread concerning the BRADLEY's gun op/ammo. The mouse decided to close the tab on me. This Spring my PC will be retired and my mouse and keyboard will suffer a VERY SLOW DEATH. I'll miss XP SP3 and 8.1 here I come ready or not or 10 which is developing rapidly. God help us all!?! I'd consider APPLE but they change OS's like flies land on xxit or better refs don't update stories of delays until they REALLY come out with the gear and then tell you "oh by the by it was delayed" case in point this above topic. I look forward to going back to work tomorrow, "reindeer games" look pretty good at this moment.

Good Night AND Have a good week!!

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

That "2A7 doesn't differ much from 2A6" is what puzzles me a bit, as I'm under impression that 2A7 should have better armor.

There is all kinds of added armour on the 2a7

[DRG]

Pat I see this post as page 17 post 324...... what do you see it as ?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
I see your last as Page 33/Post 324. Off to the "rain locker" and work!!

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I see a long lost friend is back and since this next is on my list I'd appreciate some in house data on the MAG'ACH SPIKE NLOS as the data is limited it flared up on the web and has now quietly gone away. See Pg.28 Post 280/Pg.29 Post 281 for background.

Regards,
Pat

[luigim]

About Ukraine OOB: I suggest that T64BM Bulat should be in first line tanks and not in obsolete tanks with -5 points. Then I also suggest that in Ukraine OOB a non upgraded T64BV Cold War era legacy should be there, because they are actually in service and fighting

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I started this with something I thought would be easy, well there I go thinking again !?! The tanks I'm talking about are Taiwan's CM-11/or H-48 "BRAVE TIGER" these tanks just recently have been modified to carry an ERA package of French origin and NOT as must have been reported at some point the Israeli "BLAZER" ERA package. This needs some further investigation on my part to narrow down the French ERA.
http://www.janes.com/article/48422/i...n-s-cm11-tanks
http://snafu-solomon.blogspot.co.uk/...tanks-get.html
http://forums.spacebattles.com/threa...-tanks.326500/
And for the new units here are some Pics:


Before I go any further, it is important to note that Taiwan's American made tanks were unmodified when shipped to Taiwan. Therefore using the game ENCYCLOPAEDIA the below information is drawn on that data as well.

Further background is that the CM-11 is a "hybrid" MBT the hull is from the M-60A3 while the turret is from the M48A5 but with modifications such as the Cupola .50 cal has been replaced by an unprotected .50 Cal M2. (Plus it has a roof mounted sighted 7.62mm.) plus smoke dischargers. I'm assuming this modified turret is the reason for the difference in the protection numbers from the standard M-48A5 turret when these units were entered. When fielded in 1990 it also retained the full M-60A3 TTS FCS. Below is the only ref I can find that shows the placement of the ERA in question...
http://www.jedsite.info/tanks-mike/m...a/cm11era.html
Click on the second from the left bottom image. This from a Taiwanese or Chinese site.

The next issue deals with the fact that the CM-11 might have received another upgrade to the FCS with something between the M60A3TTS and M1A1. The TTS has a game FC of 35 the M1A1 FC is 40, I did not get the Stabilizer numbers sorry. The LFR is good as is. So in conclusion is the wiggle room is between what adjustment between the FC and Stab. numbers are necessary. One possible option is to give it EITHER the full FC or Stab. increase only. This issue does make sense to me to improve their FCS in that all attempts to get the M1A1 have failed and that Taiwan was seeking another source for an advanced MBT (200 Units) both from America and internally due the the rough mountainous center of the country and stress that a heavy MBT would be on road network infrastructure. This upgrade would also buy America a little political breathing room with both Taiwan and China (They REALLY didn't like the fact that we upgraded Taiwan's PATRIOT's to the PAC-3 version.). Given all the data and supposition I believe the best time for an improved CM-11 is about JAN/2005 or JAN/2010 either would fit the political/military exercises and a rising more aggressive China of that time frame and continuing currently. Look for key words in these refs...
http://www.deagel.com/Main-Battle-Ta...002634001.aspx
http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor...p?armor_id=219

Two other issues...
All the Taiwanese M60A3TTS tanks FC need to be changed to 35 vice 30 as currently shown, this will make them equal to the U.S. counterpart as noted at top.

Also in the ENCYCLOPAEDIA for Taiwan the notes you made for the reason you put the M1A1ROC appear in the second M60A3TTS listed on the first page. I'll assume this M1A1ROC is locked out by the note above?

Pics for the base CM-11 from Taiwan below...



An older but still relevant article on Asian armor...
http://www.defencereviewasia.com/art...-TANKS-IN-ASIA

And finally the most current in depth view of Taiwan's military arms situation to include all U.S. arms status...
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...ization-04250/

"Hey Don how about an ERA upgrade to the CM-11?" I should've known that something that simple would lead to all this above !?! Don I'll save you the trouble I know just the thing to deal with me right now-
I think that about covers it.

Regards,
Pat

Something else he might wish is for me to do sail away!!

CM-11 UNITS 380/381/545/546
M60A3TTS UNITS 022/023/027
CM-12 UNITS 385/386 UPDATED M-48A5 with complete TTS FCS installed hope I beat the clock!!!!

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The clock was this close...

Taiwan tanks in question...
CM-11 UNITS 380/381/545/546
M60A3TTS UNITS 022/023/027
CM-12 UNITS 385/386 UPDATED M-48A5 with complete TTS FCS

Those CM-11 pictures are for the OOB as well if you wish. The current pictures look like M-48 or early M-60 ones.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well the @/?!*%$ mouse struck again and closed all my TWO tabs!
OK, I'm good now...The ERA for the CM-11 ERA has been solved and it didn't take too long as their are only a couple of companies working for the DGA (It basically coordinates French industry.) in charge of Frances defense needs. Anyway Ref. 1 provides the background and the name of the parent company. Of note the picture in the upper right was "the hook" look familiar? It should, it's pictured in Post 328 above.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3845.html

Next this took a little longer but here's the SNPE subsidiary that handles ERA and other explosive type products. Two items below are quoted from the "Uses" tab, one concerns the AMX-30B2 which I believe we left in service for the French (This reenforces that.) a couple of years ago when this tank came up for discussion concerning the French but, I believe primarily the Greek/Cyprus use of them. Next is of immediate concern to us with the capabilities of this ERA on the M60 Series. Bold is mine in the write up...
1. "AMX30: GIAT Industries/EURENCO products have been selected by the French Army for the reactive armor protection of the French AMX-30B2 tanks equipping the FAR (Force d'Action Rapide)."

2. "M60: Reactive armors can enhance protection levels against modern shaped charge (HEAT) weapons, such as: RPG-7, 105 mm HEAT tank ammunition and BASIC-TOW missiles. They are able to defeat shaped charge weapons up to 1000 mm nominal penetration."

For the below ref from the Home Page click on "Reactive Armor Kits" in the Lower Right. Then in the Upper Left Click on "Composition, Advantages and Uses" in order as shown for the progression of the data. They are short.
http://www.insensitive-munitions.com/en/index.html


Before the mouse strikes again-good night!

Regards,
Pat