[OT] Another heated discussion about the Iraq siutation, war and politics.

[David E. Gervais]

..here's my 2 cents..

"Peace is not an 'Act' or a 'state of being', Peace is what's left when you remove hatred, violence, persicution, and yes even racism."

"Before people can live in peace they must first learn to live without hate, to live without violence, to live without racism, and to live without fear."

It is a hard lesson to learn, and one I feel people will never fully learn.

Hate is most often born of jealousy, violence is most often born of 'the desire to control', racism is born of ignorance, and fear is the basis of most modern day economies.

Don't wish your enemy dead, wish him a long life, it's a much crueler fate!

someone once said.."I know the truth and even if I shout it at the top of my lungs, nobody will hear it. Why? Because to hear the truth you have to be willing to listen!"

..the end!

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by David E. Gervais:
.. someone once said.."I know the truth and even if I shout it at the top of my lungs, nobody will hear it. Why? Because to hear the truth you have to be willing to listen!"

Great quote. I completely indentify with whoever said it.

[DavidG]

Originally posted by primitive:
Aloofi:
Once again in this thread I am made speechless. There is obviously not possible to have a rational discussion here, so I withdraw from this thread until its back on topic.

OK to get back on topic. An often heard reason for not going after Saddam is that there are other countries out there commiting similar or worse attrocities. This is a logic I don't understand. Just because we can't rid the world of all the human rights abUsers doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
Another often heard reason is that the only reason we are going after Iraq is the oil. The flip side of the coin is that Saddam is the most dangerous because he is sitting on top of several billion (or trillion??) dollars worth of oil.
I think it would be great if there were a way to get rid of Saddamn and his regime without a war. I just don't know what it is.

[dogscoff]

I said I was leaving this discussion, but we seemed to have changed the subject, so...

An often heard reason for not going after Saddam is that there are other countries out there commiting similar or worse attrocities.

Not quite. This fact it used to support the assertion that Bush & Blair's motives are not as altruistic as they'd have us believe.

[ March 17, 2003, 16:56: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

[Aloofi]

[quote]Originally posted by dogscoff:

If you're not going to produce any evidence to deny what I've posted, then I'm going to leave this discussion again. All I'll say is this:
I hope God is proud of his peoples, because I'm not.

Evidence?
What ever I post you will say its biased, from an Israeli source, and doesn't count. I've seen this trick before.

Besides, you will always believe what you want to believe. When 850 000 jews were expelled from Arabs countries and all their properties confiscated nobody said a word, when the Jordanian and Egyptian govertments begun building settlements in the areas of Israel that they conquered during the 1948 war and kept under their control until 1967 nobody said a word.
Nobody cared when the Jewish community in Gaza was massacred and expelled, and their houses occupied by Arabs. Nobody said one word when the Egyptian govertment ordered the UN troops in Sinai out so they could invade Israel, oh no, the whole world called it "Israeli agression". And when Northern Israel was bombed back to the stone age in 1982, with entire Kibbutzim being leveled and Israel invaded Libanum to kick them out of range it was called "Israeli aggression", and the whole world came together like one to vote a zillion UN resolutions against Israel.
So you know what?
Fck the world!
I don't give a sht what anybody believe. Israel is there, and its a military power, and that's why everybody hate it. They want jews as victims, not as independent and sovereign human beings.

And about the proud thingy you said, is pointless to reply, but you already know what I think.

[tesco samoa]

Please tell me what attocities has Suddam commited since GW1.

a link to read

http://praeter.org:8080/iraq_timeline_letter.pdf

another

http://thomasash.hypermart.net/curre...trocities.html

http://www.counterpunch.org/du.html

Please tell me why this is a proper war to fight.

Its like I wish for Mayor Mel Lastman to be removed from power in Toronto so I flatten Toronto.
40000 people die... and maybe Mel is among them. Maybe not.

If the US want a regime change why not a surgical strike.

One can only hope that with this order of Democracy their is super sized freedom fries with it.

Also what additional rights will the USA people have to give up in the coming days, weeks, years... to win the war in the middle east , far east and those other places inbetween, near and far away.

I quote that bastard laden
"freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people - and the West in general - into an unbearable hell and a choking life."

P.S.

Sorry for the swear word. but thats what i feel their and i feel it is happening.

[Antonin]

So. GloboCop George Bush and his Lords of Chaos say they want to attack Iraq because someday, maybe, Iraq might possibly attack us. But wait--aren't Dick Cheney and Colin Powell the same knuckleheads who fumbled the Last war against Iraq? Didn't they (along with George Bush I) tell us twelve years ago that the half a million soldiers we had poised in the desert south of Baghdad couldn't be allowed to finish off the dictator Saddam Hussein because keeping Saddam's regime in power was vital to the preservation of Iraq's territorial integrity and regional stability? And now they want to start the whole bloody mess up again? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[Thermodyne]

Saddam goes to bed tonight and has a dream, first thing in the morning, he calls Bush.

“George, this is Saddam. Last night I had a dream and I think it might have been a vision. I was in Washington, and everywhere I looked there were signs praising Iraq’s great leader, Saddam! They were praising me. What do you think of that?

Bush replied that the call had awakened him from a dream.

“I was in Baghdad and everywhere I looked there were signs.”

Saddam excitedly asked what the signs said, and Bush replied.

“I couldn’t tell, they were all written in Hebrew.”



[ March 17, 2003, 23:31: Message edited by: Thermodyne ]

[primitive]

Good one Thermo.

This discussion needs more smileys.

[CEO TROLL]

By Rush Limbaugh (WAIT!!! it is still worth reading)

I think the vast differences in compensation between the victims of the
September 11th casualty, and those who die serving the country in uniform,
are profound. No one is really talking about it either because you just
don't criticize anything having to do with September 11th.

Well, I just can't let the numbers pass by because it says something really
disturbing about the entitlement mentality of this country.

If you lost a family member in the September 11th attack, you're going to
get an average of $1,185,000. The range is a minimum guarantee of $250,000,
all the way up to $4.7 million.

If you are a surviving family member of an American soldier killed in
action, the first check you get is a $6,000 direct death benefit, half of
which is taxable. Next, you get $1,750 for burial costs. If you are the
surviving spouse, you get $833 a month until you remarry. And there's a
payment of $211 per month for each child under 18. When the child hits 18,
those payments come to a screeching halt.

Keep in mind that some of the people that are getting an average of $1.185
million up to $4.7 million are complaining that it's not enough.

We also learned over the weekend that some of the victims from the Oklahoma
City bombing have started an organization asking for the same deal that the
September 11th families are getting. In addition to that, some of the
families of those bombed in the embassies are now asking for compensation as
well.

You see where this is going, don't you?

Folks, this is part and parcel of over fifty years of entitlement politics
in this country. It's just really sad.

Every time when a pay raise comes up for the military they usually receive
next to nothing of a raise. Now the green machine is in combat in the Middle
East while their families have to survive on food stamps and live in low
rent housing.

However our own U.S. Congress just voted themselves a raise, and many of you
don't know that they only have to be in Congress one-time to receive a
pension that is more than $15,000 per month and most are now equal to be
millionaires plus. They also do not receive Social Security on retirement
because they didn't have to pay into the system. If some of the military
people stay in for 20 years and get out as an E-7 you may receive a pension
of $1,000 per month, and the very people who placed you in harms way receive
a pension of $15,000 per month.

I would like to see our elected officials pick up a weapon and join ranks
before they start cutting out benefits and lowering pay for our sons and
daughters who are now fighting.

"When do we finally do something about this ??"

If this doesn't seem fair to you, it is time to forward this to as many
people as you can.