Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?

[Rathar]

I somehow just noticed the book of the koth and I must say that I was wholly amused!

This particular game may take a while as it seems we have a large "small" universe to play in and without Stellar tech..

RathAr Kalinger
(who shall be known as a prince among spaceship captains. Been using the name since tradewars in bbs days. Liberal to the needy, a scourge to those on top!)

[DeKaye]

Always a great read - the History of KOTH Hill :} Thanks for updating it Alneyan!

[Alneyan]

DeKaye said:
Always a great read - the History of KOTH Hill :} Thanks for updating it Alneyan!

You're welcome. I know I'm a great chap. No, really.

There's a small problem, though. Geo is the one who does the History of the Hill, not me. I haven't even put the updated history on the website yet, though it should be the case by tonight (assuming my computer doesn't blow on me in the meantime).

Take this message as a "KOTH is to have been will updated".

[DeKaye]

Well, you are a swell chap, Alneyan. You put up with all our crazy game requests! :} Sorry to take the glory from ya, but Thanks Geo for the updated KOTH history

[Slynky]

Well, this is the second game I've played where I'm at, apparently, a disadvantage. If I understand it correctly, because I'm player ONE, anytime I create a design and then refit to it on the same turn, if player TWO also created a design, I'm screwed. The so-called PBW retro-fiting bug? Or is it the Simultaneous game bug?

As I was told, one must create the design one turn, then use it the next turn. This puts me at a disadvantage when every turn counts and I get a new ship item off the research line and I have to wait a turn to use it. EVERY item, I have to wait a turn.

This sucks and I don't remember having this many problems before and I've played PLENTY of simultaneous games over PBW.

This latest time, not only did all the retrofits get ignored, I lost minerals in reserve because I counted on the retrofits using them up instead of them just "going away".

[geoschmo]

Slynky, there are two things I do on a regular basis to all but eliminate the problem.

Every time I create a design for a ship I am goign to build (Design name: Alpha) I immedietly copy the design (Design name: Alpha II). Both designs are identical, and I don't build any Alpha II's, so it stays in my design list as a prototype. When I want to upgrade Alpha later with new tech, I then edit Alpha II. You can safely retrofit to a design on the same turn you edit it, it's only on the turn it's created that you are at risk.

Secondly, early in the game I create several dummy designs which I don't use for anything. I even set their design types to Weapons Platform even though they are ships just to keep them out of the way on the list. These I use whenver I have an important retrofit and I have forgotten to do what I described in the previous paragraph, or if I need to retrofit ships of a single design to two more than one new design on the same turn. These are a little more painful to use since you have to edit the entire design, not just a couple components, but it's better then losing progress at an important point in the game.

Of course the downside to this is my design list gets tremendously bloated. It's not uncommon for me to have 50+ ship designs to wade through in a game. Of course obsoleting helps, but it's still a bit of a chore.

Geoschmo

[Slynky]

geoschmo said:When I want to upgrade Alpha later with new tech, I then edit Alpha II. You can safely retrofit to a design on the same turn you edit it, it's only on the turn it's created that you are at risk.

Well, someone will have to enlighten me then. Because, what's the difference between editing a design and creating a new one? If I have Alpha 1 (and I left 10 Kt unused on it) and built ships of Type Alpha 1, am I not editing it when I call it up, copy it, and save it with a different name? What's the difference between upgrading (where you have to give a new name) and copying and saving with a different name? Or is it a matter that it has to be a prototype?

[douglas]

When you create a new design, the game has to assign an internal ID for it. If two players create designs on the same turn, both designs will initially be assigned the same internal ID, and the conflict will be resolved when the turn is processed by changing one of them. Construction queues will be updated to the correct design ID, but any orders, including retrofits, that reference that ID will not be changed. For the player whose design gets its ID changed, any retrofit orders to that design will be interpreted as orders to retrofit to the other player's design and ignored as invalid. Since it is not supposed to be possible to even try to retrofit to someone else's design, there is no log message for this.

The Copy and Upgrade buttons create a new design in exactly the same manner as the Create New button. The only difference is that they automatically fill in what the original design had for you. As far as how internal ID's work, there is no difference.

When you Edit a preexisting design, the design already has its ID and all other players know this ID is already claimed. So, no matter what changes you make to the design, no other design will be created with the same ID, no conflict resolution will be needed, and no retrofit orders will end up referencing the wrong design. Editing can only be done on prototype designs that are not currently under construction anywhere.


One other thing you could try if you don't have a design free to edit into what you need for the retrofit is create a whole bunch of new designs, ending with the one you need to retrofit to. If you create 10 dummy designs and make the real design number 11, the first 10 designs anyone else makes in that same turn will have ID conflicts with the dummy designs, leaving your real design and its retrofits undisturbed.

[Slynky]

Well, how does one edit a design and then save it? Or, where is the edit button?

[geoschmo]

Edit is right below the copy and create buttons. It will only be available if the design you have selected on the left is a prototype. Furthermore, if it's a protoype that you have in a build queue, you will get an message when you click edit.