Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.

[dogscoff]

I read a book Last year called (I think) Schild's ladder. It had a nice idea- automated probes were sent to distant worlds to terraform them. When they arrive and have finished the terraforming, they build/grow human bodies. Then the humans transmit their personalities/ memories/ intelligence as data (at light speed) to be downloaded into the new body. Meanwhile the old body goes into stasis to await its owner's return.

Damn wierd book, with some seriously heavy (and at least partially made up, I think) science.

[dogscoff]

You cannot go faster than the speed of light through a *vacuum*.

If you fired some light into a vacuum, then swithced the vacuum on, would the rush of air accellerate the light beyond light speed?

Sorry, someone had to say it.

[Aiken]

dogscoff, I suspect you ideas about commutinies of unhappy and strange-minded people who are willing to explore new frontier are just your ideas, which has nothing close to reality. Just another example:

Russia, Siberia. About 10000000 sq.km of taiga (nothern forest). Almost uninhabited (0,0056-4 humans per sq.km). Plus millions of people distracted with current economical and political course. According to your theory, it's a great place to establish communities where you can live state apart. And it will cost you around 200-300 $ to arrive there.

But no. People are leaving those places to live in towns. They want civilization, media and goods. They warn to earn money to be able to spend them for poisonous food and hitech bells and whistles. Paradox? Probably they are not organized enough? Well, maybe.
Internet is all I have: search "Siberia communities + habitats" reterned a bunch of links to tourist firm's sites. No alternative societies, communities, nothing. Search "Siberia + abandon + leaving" returned lots of links to articles about depopulation of Siberia and similar problems.

Humanity in 16th and 21st centuries are very different things, I have to say.

Edit: some typos

[ July 20, 2004, 16:07: Message edited by: aiken ]

[bearclaw]

Enstien himself once said, when asked about his theories, that he could be completely wrong.

Gandalf's comments on Quantum Theory opens a whole new door. Some fields of study into Quantum Mechanics suggest that FTL may be possible just not to our understanding of Classic or Relativity physics.

What's happened is that the human race has developed 3 seperate and distinct theories on physics:
Classical
Relativity
Quantum.

The problem is that these 3 theories are mutually exclusive. It is hoped (and this is where Membrane and String Theories come in) that a Unification Theory can be developed which will explain all of 3 theories into one.

Because of some of the concepts with Quantum Mechanics, there are viable research communities attempting to develope theories for FTL. MIT and NASA in particular have them. NASA's Advanced Concepts Labratories have developed many theories that have developed into something usable and one of their projects is for Quantum Propulsion. Which, theoretically, could be FTL.

Another more interesting proposal with Quantum theory IMO isn't Quantum Communications but Quantum Power. Using the description outlined earlier imagine that you Quantum Teleported electrons instead of photons. Assuming a transciver could be built small enough, you could have elliminate all need for batteries, powerlines, etc. All the electrical power would be "beamed" directly to the device needing it anywhere in the universe instantaniously. Combine that with the advent of Fusion power and the world would be changed on a scale comparable to the invention of the telephone, automobile, or computers.

[oleg]

Makinus, I am sorry for being sort of a bully in some previous Posts. I just want to attract an attention to the fact that the sub-light travel "too slow" is purely a conception of our perception. If we can live just 10 times longer, it should not be a psycological problem at all. Yes, it takes a lot of time but people wheo started the project should still get the ovation and due recognition during their life span, not two generations after the death.

Yes, I understand that extending our life span to 1K years looks almost as impossible as FTL. But it CAN be done. There are no fundamental obstacles. Only the nature of humanity.

[ July 20, 2004, 17:54: Message edited by: oleg ]

[oleg]

Originally posted by FLX:
I think that you're giving it a bad focus.
Why do WE have to be abe to reach stars?, if we can travel at 0'01·C, then none of us will reach Alpha Centauri... but if you can build a self sufficient vessel, with an habitable biosphere, maybe the gradchilds of our grandchilds could settle in a far distant world. The matter is NOT lifespan, a human individual cannot live forever and i hope we never reach that point, but the HUMAN beeings can, as specie .

See, It illustrates my point exactly !!
There is no way any politician can start a project that requires immence investments which results can be seen only after we are all dead.

But if the same project can be finished during lifetime, better still election campain, there WILL be some public support at least. Inter-star travel is perceived as taking years and years. But if it can be perceived as months, even days for our offsprings (or slow living ETs) who would enjoy much longer and productive life, it should become a realistic endeavor

Screw FTL, genetic engeeeniring is our bright and shiny future


[ July 20, 2004, 20:10: Message edited by: oleg ]

[Spoo]

Using the description outlined earlier imagine that you Quantum Teleported electrons instead of photons. Assuming a transciver could be built small enough, you could have elliminate all need for batteries, powerlines, etc. All the electrical power would be "beamed" directly to the device needing it anywhere in the universe instantaniously.

Instantaneous teleportation of electrons to anywhere in the universe? I think not.

[Suicide Junkie]

Originally posted by Yimboli:
Correct me if I am mistaken: You cannot go faster than the speed of light through a *vacuum*. You can, however, go faster than the speed of light through a different medium, such as water. Water slows the speed of light significantly, and you can make a particle go faster than how fast light goes through water - and weird things happen.

Yes? No?

The speed of light waves in water is about 2/3 c.
When you have radioactive materials in the water, and they emit subatomic particles at above 2/3 c, then they produce Cherenkov radiation, which is the equivalent of a sonic boom.

However, relativistic effects are relative to c, not the speed of light in a local medium.

[Makinus]

about my earlier affirmation, the speed of photons traveling in opposite directions was explained already by other, but the Quantum Entanglement theori was not.

I found the following article in eikipedia that explains what Quantum Entanglement is and what are its consequences:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement

According to the article Quantum Entanglement is possible, but because of the imposibility of defining the way in wich an entangled particle colapses it is impossible to transmit any kind of information using this method, some scientists provide possible solutions for this barrier but the general consensus is that these "solutions" have their own impossibilities and can´t be used to transmit information in FTL speeds...

So Oleg was right and i was wrong, because while Quantum Entanglement really exists and 2 entangled particles can change states simultaniously over huge distances in a FTL way, this method can´t be used to transmit information because you cant predict in wich state the entangled particle will collapse...

[Gryphin]

Two Positions:
Humans will live long enough to develope FTL

Humans will kill themselves off first.

"Some days you get the bear. Some days the bear gets you."