Jomon's new summons (how is Jomon now?)

[VedalkenBear]

Originally Posted by Sombre

The yamabushi/sohei event was there before. Don't know about the other one.

I don't think using nature gems to summon researchers sounds very viable. How does it compare with lanterns or skull mentors?

Thanks about the event.

Well, how good the Jigami is really depends on a number of factors. First, as a researcher, it's a 2N mage with standard research. That means it generally has 5 research, 6 if you're Magic-3. So it's roughly half of a Skull Mentor, at the equivalent tier in Conjuration and same number of gems, of the same type. It is, of course, also another body, which means something like the following.

It has 45 Supply production. So, in the field (more on this below), it's roughly the same as two Bags of Wine for your army, for the same cost as two Bags of Wine. Considering this is Late Era, and R'lyeh's dominionkill was increased, I don't think this can just be tossed aside. Its battle magic is limited, granted. OTOH, it could be a nice 'buffer'.

Something else that I realized is that it has 2 mapmove. As such, it's faster overland than either of the national mages that Jomon has. This may say more for the poor mapmove of the Onmyoji and Master Shugenja, but it can keep up with your armies, unlike your national mages.

As far as the RNG-nature of Jomonese national mages, 20% of your Mages should have 2 of a given path (this is ignoring Earth and Nature for Master Shugenja). Since most of your army is dirt-cheap, compared to most, you should be able to get many fortifications relatively quickly, and at that point it's all statistics. If you're going to try to give Death Magic to Jomon, the Onmyoji should have it. Probably replace their Nature chance.

Edit: Something I _am_ in favor of is making their mages Sacred. Their armies are very cheap, but as archaeolept points out, the upkeep on their mages seriously hampers development otherwise, and LE generally delays the ability to 'switch over' to a conjured army until it's too late for Jomon.

[Sicaire]

The changelog for patch 3.21 also mentions a "Onmyo-ji shikigami battle summon" but i couldnt find the spell somehow...?

[VedalkenBear]

Sicaire: It's not a 'battle summon' spell. It's something the Onmyoji auto-summon whenever they enter battle. An astral spell low in Conjuration to summon more would be really nice, as it's flavor and not really effective at this point. It might help a little against a rush if your prioritize buying Onmyoji over Master Shugenja.

(The spell, like Summon Ancestor for TC, should be Astral as they're thematically linked to the Onmyoji and the Onmyoji is the only national mage that Jomon has with Astral magic. Maybe make it Astral-2, as they do fly and aren't undead, unlike TC's ancestors.

[Omnirizon]

are these shikigami sacred?

[VedalkenBear]

Omniziron: Yes, they are. I just created a mod (not uploaded yet) that allows the Onmyoji to call them in battle, as well as making the mages sacred. I'm going to test it out a bit, and report back on them.

[Kristoffer O]

As I said in another thread earlier on this is only part of my intended Jomon update. JK's haste to make a patch interrupted my work. Thus there are no tatsus, shikomes or myoo in this patch. I have other even greater plans for them. These changes will have a greater balance effect on the nation, so current addons are mostly thematical in nature.

But, for the time being, you will have to contends with what you have.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

That just seems too severe. Dropping the one present in the screenshot to 1A2E1N makes him not only not very interesting as a battlemage, but also not incredibly cost effective. Ultimately he loses all combat magic utility, and thus becomes little more than a sort of expensive, lowish HP, self buffing thug.

E2A1 can cast Rain of Stones... and he's Ethereal.

-Max

[VedalkenBear]

I'm quite happy with what you're doing so far, KO, and I do see this as only a WIP. Looking forward to 3.22 (or 3.24).

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

E2A1 can cast Rain of Stones... once..... and then pass out..... and he's Ethereal.

-Max

There ya go.

[Xietor]

A player on the Kingmaker thread playing Utgard says his Utgard mage can cast these summons as well. Is that intended?