The Tank is dead

[DRG]

If anyone finds length and width comparisons for the M-ATV vs the JLTV point me to them, I've not been able to find what I need

[shahadi]

I'm not sure, but as the military and political foot print on the ground in Syria and Iraq has dramatically changed, I do not see British infantry involved at all beyond a few special ops.

What I would like to see, if this Brexit move does not alter the fundamental relationship between the Brits and the Americans vis-a-vis NATO is that Britain takes on the leadership of the fundamental defense of Europe, then her new found strategic obligations will drive what she needs to field. 8x8's won't fare as well in Europe against Russian heavy mechanized brigades as say opposed to lightly armed Taliban fighters.

If she committed to NATO leadership, then I see, in my reading, she must field heavy mechanized combat teams too.

8x8's need a lot of supporting firepower to bring independent brigades to battle. Especially, if she transports two fire teams per vehicle there's not enough cubic feet to put added ammo loads to support auto canons and missiles.

Tanks, heavy tanks are needed.

One solution, since she does not have to air lift heavy mechanized formations (placing the brigades forward in Eastern Europe), is to adopt the Israeli solution, turning to hulls of ready to retire tanks for heavy IFV's conversions.

Now, that should make an interesting scenario.

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[Aeraaa]

Originally Posted by shahadi

8x8's won't fare as well in Europe against Russian heavy mechanized brigades as say opposed to lightly armed Taliban fighters.


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I agree. In a large conventional war, we won't witness the death of the tank, but the death of light armor (something that was evident in Ukraine as well). Stryker brigades and equivalent formations will have a hard time surviving on a battlefield like this.

[IronDuke99]

Originally Posted by shahadi

I'm not sure, but as the military and political foot print on the ground in Syria and Iraq has dramatically changed, I do not see British infantry involved at all beyond a few special ops.

What I would like to see, if this Brexit move does not alter the fundamental relationship between the Brits and the Americans vis-a-vis NATO is that Britain takes on the leadership of the fundamental defense of Europe, then her new found strategic obligations will drive what she needs to field. 8x8's won't fare as well in Europe against Russian heavy mechanized brigades as say opposed to lightly armed Taliban fighters.

If she committed to NATO leadership, then I see, in my reading, she must field heavy mechanized combat teams too.

8x8's need a lot of supporting firepower to bring independent brigades to battle. Especially, if she transports two fire teams per vehicle there's not enough cubic feet to put added ammo loads to support auto canons and missiles.

Tanks, heavy tanks are needed.

One solution, since she does not have to air lift heavy mechanized formations (placing the brigades forward in Eastern Europe), is to adopt the Israeli solution, turning to hulls of ready to retire tanks for heavy IFV's conversions.

Now, that should make an interesting scenario.

=====

Like other Western nations UK has Special Forces operating in the Middle East, rather than infantry, as well as air forces.

UK plays a major role in NATO, although for my money I hope that does not involve confronting Russia in Eastern Europe, that can only lead to a hiding to nothing, certainly East and north of Poland.

Post Brexit, and with the new Carriers available from about 2019, I hope that UK returns to its traditional mainly maritime stance, on defence. The Royal Navy will become even more important for a nation that wants to be a global trader.

UK can live with a 70-80,000 man regular Army so long as the Royal Navy is strengthened and the Royal Marine Brigade kept at full strength. If I had my way, other than for occasional NATO exercises, none of the British Army would be actually based in mainland Europe, beyond the Crown bases on Cyprus and perhaps Gib.

To my way of thinking a UK that has a para/air portable brigade group, a Royal Marine brigade group, some sort of light armoured brigade group and an Armoured Division, plus Special Forces, has about as much military as it is likely to need.

I am much more concerned with a Royal Navy that has only 19 major surface escorts (needs to be at least 25) and seven nuc attack subs (needs to be at least 8 and preferably 10).

[IronDuke99]

Btw, I also think there is a strong case for UK expanding the excellent Gurkha Rifles to a full brigade.

[IronDuke99]

British Army admits Russia can outgun British troops (no great surprise to me, I have to say) Much of the video relates to NATO in general, for example "No NATO nation, bar the US, can get a division" -presumably an Armoured Div- "out the door in much less than six months"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aCorCNjwRY

[luigim]

Any update on JLTV in the next patch?

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by luigim

Any update on JLTV in the next patch?

Yes for the USMC at least. As to US Army and foreign use, for the most part there are orders for and plans to but little difinative so there may be some delay till solid info is available. After all LOTS of plans and intentions never lead to actual delivery and WinSPMBT tries very hard to deal with "what is" rather then "what could be".

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by luigim

Any update on JLTV in the next patch?

Originally Posted by Suhiir

Yes for the USMC at least. As to US Army and foreign use, for the most part there are orders for and plans to but little difinative so there may be some delay till solid info is available. After all LOTS of plans and intentions never lead to actual delivery and WinSPMBT tries very hard to deal with "what is" rather then "what could be".

"Nearly four years after the Army settled on Oshkosh to produce a next-generation replacement for the troubled Humvee, a few lucky soldiers from the 1st Armored Brigade Combat Team, 3rd Infantry Division are finally going to get their paws on the much-hyped Joint Light Tactical Vehicle.

On Monday, the Raider Brigaide's official Twitter account posted photos of flatbed trucks hauling the new JLTV rolling up at Fort Stewart in Georgia."

Fort Stewart, BTW is a great place. Down the road from the ATL, makes for a nice drive on a Friday evening, with "Get the Led Out" rock show on the radio! And, you ain't gotta report back until Monday 08:00.

Check out the brigade's twitter account here: https://twitter.com/1ABCT_3ID/status...374209/photo/1

[shahadi]

It Took The Army 4 Years To Field The JLTV. It Took Soldiers 4 Days To Total One



A Whole Lotta Led!

Source: Task & Purpose