4200 Damage out to range 8!

[NullAshton]

Crystalline armor only affects hits on the hull. It doesn't divert the damage to the shields, damage is still done TO the shields. If you wanted it to divert the damage to the shields and not take it, I guess you could add an emmisive trait...

[Alneyan]

What are you replying to exactly NullAshton? If it is my claim that "10 Crystalline Armours make a ship immune to anything doing less than 150 damage (normal damage)", you can check it out: build one ship with a Master Computer, some supplies, 10 Crystalline Armour and 150 shield points, and send one hundred battleships with heavy-mounted Meson Blasters (90 damage per hit). The Crystalline vessel will simply not be damaged, so long as it still has supplies.

If it was my estimation that three Crystalline Armours will barely be able to generate 75 shield points, it goes somewhat like that: the shields go down sooner or later, there is one hit to the hull (likely enough to destroy one CA if Shield Depleters were fired before, though that can be argued), 30 points are created, and it will take two direct hits (for an average heavy-mounted weapon) to take down the two remaining CA components. The values are only given as an estimation: it can be more, it can be less, but it will not be significant (unless using a very weak weapon, like an unmounted Meson Blaster).

One clarification: the "immune" part implies that NO weapon doing special damage is used. If you put a single Shield Depleter before regular weapons, it may be enough to break the CA, depending on the other weapon used. Two successful hits by a Shield Depleter may be needed instead, I am not positive on that. (The reason is that Shield Depleters sometimes create partial damage, converted into normal damage when the vessel is hit by a standard weapon)

[Riesig_Bar]

I obvisously have a lot to learn about weapons and shields. Is there atopic on designs for certain things? A book maybe?

[NullAshton]

It could be that stock crystalline armor also have emmisive abilities.

[Alneyan]

Stock CA doesn't have any emissive ability. It can be broken down very effectively: try sending a vessel with Meson Blasters (unmounted) against a CA vessel, and remove all supplies from the CA vessel. The Crystalline ship will go down, sooner or later (several ships will be needed to finish it off before combat is over). Or you can just do a Shield Depleter+weapon+Shield Depleter+weapon combination; a weapon dealing 120 damage should be fine for the test (not powerful enough to break 10 CA on its own, strong enough to destroy the vessel along with the Shield Depleters).

There is, to the best of my knowledge, no guide about weapons. SJ made a list of weapons and their damage ratios though, and there should be a program to get those values. They can be interested, if you are lazy like me and do not want to do the maths yourself. Do not worry if you do not understand everything about the Crystalline Armour, partial damage and the like: it is *complicated*, because partial damage is handled very oddly by the game.

[Riesig_Bar]

Thanks guys I have learned a lot. I will print and reread so I can make notes. I will then teach those grey devils a thing or two. If I live long enough to do the research.

If not I will certainly know better the next time.

[Suicide Junkie]

The key thing to note is that the partial damage done to the armor will pass through the shields again on the next hit.

Each time, the CA-effect will sap up to half the damage. Once the partial damage is equal to the weapon damage, sapping half of the hit eats up all the new damage added, and the hull damage stops climbing.

Consider a weapon dealing 100 damage.
1) It hits the hull for 100 damage, generating 100 shield points from the CA ability, plus 100 partial damage to the armor.
2) The next hit does 100 (weapon)+100 (leftover from previous hit).
3) The shields absorb 100 damage, and 100 damage reaches the hull.
4)The 100 damage hitting the hull generates 100 shields, and leaves 100 partial damage.
5) Goto 2.

The hull is always left with 100 partial damage, never enough to break a component, and the shields are always left at 100 points.
No matter how many times this ship is hit with the 100 damage weapon, it will not die.

The ship will only be destroyed if the partial damage is enough to break a component, or if the CA ability total is less than the weapon damage (in which case the partial damage builds up turn after turn until a component breaks).
...Or if special damage-type weapons are used...

[Alneyan]

Suicide Junkie said:
The ship will only be destroyed if the partial damage is enough to break a component, or if the CA ability total is less than the weapon damage (in which case the partial damage builds up turn after turn until a component breaks).
...Or if special damage-type weapons are used...

There is another way to destroy CA vessel: wait for them to use all their supplies, and their shields will go down, so no more regeneration for them. There are slightly more efficient ways to deal with the CA, but...

[Alneyan]

After much testing, the explanation is actually not nearly as complicated as my first hypothesis: Shield Depleters simply do not take away partial damage, and merely remove the shields, hence allowing the attacking vessel to get two shots at the CA vessel, both dealing full damage.

So, you only need to hit them once with a Shield Depleter (after the CA cycle has begun) to break one CA, even if your weapon does not deal the required amount of damage per hit. Then you will need another hit of a Shield Depleter to break another CA, and so on until your weapon deals more damage than the CA can regenerate (where the Shield Depleter will no longer be needed).

[Slick]

Riesig_Bar said:
Ok not really part of this thread, but I am hijacking it.

After reading the 31 posts that this generated, it appears to me that all of the information presented here has already been discussed at length here and the important points are captured in the FAQ or one of the other stickified threads. I would suggest forum searching before thread hijacking.

The Dubious Strategy Guide has a full discussion of armor as well as a PPB vs other weapon discussion.